Sound Bites of the Dead

[PPI Karl]

I was curious  as to why a significant majority of EVP available on the net are under two seconds each.  Surely, when you have eternity, you'd talk as long as you want without concern for roaming charges.  Do you think there's a time limit involved?  (Picture Carrie Fisher in Empire Strikes Back poking out her head from around a corner with just enough time to shout, "Luke, it's a trap!" before she's pulled back again by a guard.)  Do you suppose something interrupts or pulls away the dialogue between this physical plane of existence and theirs?

Also, some EVP are the paranormal equivalent of Tourette's Syndrom:  non sequeturs blurted out against the current of whatever conversation the living are having.  (If any of you have lain awake next to someone talking in his sleep, then you know what I mean.)  I wonder what those are about.

Thoughts or theories, anyone?

[asmith]

When I did a term paper on parapsychology -- years ago, which I'm hoping to rekindle and rewrite in the near future..., I recall that most events that deal with the "ghost" realm focus around kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is all around us, as well as within us. It has been documented, photographed, and researched.
In theory...
Kinetic energy is what ghosts and poltergeist draw their abilities from whether it be in the form of an apparition, an EVP, or movement of objects. This energy must be stored and focused in order to produce the results that we, as living beings, can sense and apprehend. And as with all items requiring energy, some require more then others. Ergo, the ghosts get pooped. 

[PPI Karl]

Kinetic energy.  I'm eager to kick around that theory, Tony.  (BTW, I have a story to tell you in private about the parapsychology paper I wrote for my high school psych class many years ago.)  Okeydokey. Here's what our ol' friend, Wikepedia, says in summary about kinetic energy.  (Wikepedia also offers the full scientific discussion of it, if anyone's interested.)

Kinetic energy (SI unit: the joule) is energy that a body possesses as a result of its motion. It is formally defined as the work needed to accelerate a body from rest to its current velocity. Having gained this energy during its acceleration, the body maintains this kinetic energy unless its speed changes. Negative work of the same magnitude would be required to return the body to a state of rest from that velocity.

So, since so many physical objects conduct sound waves, I can understand how kinetic energy could be used to MacGuyver together some tin cans and a string out of the environment.  And, if the window of opportunity to use kinetic energy is limited, then the brevity of EVP might be explained; that makes sense.  That might also explain why so many EVP are whispers, since the whisper sound uses fewer sound waves and therefore less energy.  But, one thing continues to bug me:   what could possibly account for the character of human speech in EVPs if the source is disembodied?  If speech among the living relies on 1) the kinetic energy of lungs to accelerate air, 2) a voice box controlling the flow of that air, and 3) the tongue, jaw and lips (and, in the case of Celine Dion, a nose) to articulate it by impeding its velocity, then what the hell could reproduce the physical process of creating a unique voice in an unphysical state? 

Just when I'm on the brink of belief, it's this kind of conundrum that spanks me back into skepticism.  Any suggestions? 

[asmith]

Very good point Karl, how do "ghosts" make sound without a physical body ?
One theory...
Through telekinesis / kinetic energy sound waves themselves can be manipulated thus effecting what the listener hears. As per postings regarding EVP ----- pacificparanormal.com  |  Pacific Paranormal Investigations  |  Pacific Paranormal Forum  |  EVP: What is it really? ----- White noise has a wide range of tones. A persons perception of the noise is what causes them to perceive notes, voices, etc...
Now what if we could rearrange the tones to actually cause other people to hear what we want? Is it possible to manipulate these tones through telekinesis (much like objects, sound bits can be manipulated or tweaked) ?
Of course, this is all theoretical....

[Brian JohnsonPPI]

I found a lot of the info on www.worlditc.org to be useful on this topic.  it is a very large site though

[PPI Karl]

June 3:  I've given this further thought and revised and added a few things to Tony's working theory.   Maybe some of my writing will make better sense.  (Or not.)  I've highlighted the changes in yellow.

Thank you, Brian, for the link.  I'm going to go check that out as soon as I'm done posting this.  As you say, Tony, all of what we discuss here is theoretical.  To those reading this without knowing us that well, I just want to say, I'm sure the technobabble can sound a bit silly.  Perhaps this is one of the (many) reasons people are unwilling to take the subject more seriously; they'll let us off the hook for it if we end up telling a ghost story, something in an entertaining framework, and some are even content to take the fear factor of ghost stories seriously.  But, when it comes to an actual, technical, and rational discussion of it using the known science, we're made to sound as though we're taking it all too seriously.  Frankly,  I prefer (as do my colleagues and likeminded friends here at PPI) to be implaccably unashamed of how we discuss the subject, regardless of whether or not to some people it begins to sound like pseudo-science and technobabble.  (As though the entire field of psychology weren't a pseudo science???!)  It's better to articulate crazy ideas and have them dismissed or disproved later then to allow potentially useful ideas to be lost because you worry about what people are going to say about you.  (And, yes, I do find myself laughing sometimes at all this "gawd durn confisticated gobbledgook of a sciematific point of view."

Okay.  So, let me see if I understand your theory correctly, Tony:  spectral beings have a psychic relationship to their environment, and their own memory of what their voices used to sound like is what helps them to reproduce that voice via the telekinetic manipulation of sound waves.  So, that would imply they are recreating their own voices unconsciously.

I'm actually encouraged by that explanation.  Here's what I like about your theory:  with the exception of our dreams, we think to ourselves in a voice that we define as our own, but which is not necessarily the voice others hear when we speak to them.  If a ghost's conscious thoughts manifest as paranormal activity and his voice is unconsciously formed, then this might also help to explain why some EVPs have the same qualities as a random outburst by people who have Tourette's Syndrome.  (Please know that I mean no offense to people who suffer from Tourette's.  I'm using it as a point of literal comparison, not a humorous analogy.)  It means certain EVPs are "unconscious" utterances:  i.e., thoughts expressed impulsively.

Another reason I like the theory is that it helps to explain how other familiar noises manifest without apparent origin (such as music materializing in the absence of instruments or media devices).

Working backward from this conclusion, here are some possible premises that might be of use to furthering the dialogue on this topic:

• that the thing we call consciousness is, in part, something other than neurochemical interactions, and involves a cohesive pattern of energy
• that there is a shape and a pattern to the energy in which the incorporeal mind exists and which acts independently of our grey matter.  (Yes, it comes down to "mind over matter."
• that, except in rare cases of alleged psychics or psychic intuitives, the physical body and/or the brain stymies the potential for the mind to act independently of its matter
• that something unknown continues to feed the incorporeal mind the energy it needs to remain cohesive  (I think the term "dark energy" is already taken.  Drats!)
• that this cohesion of energy after death is the personality, personhood, or ego identity of the individual
• that the ego identity of an individual is sustained by thoughts of itself, and that thoughts express themselves in a personal voice
• that, in the absence of a corporeal form, the thoughts (whether conscious or subconscious) and the voice behave as one

[li]THEREFORE, EVPs capture the telekinetically reproduced thoughts of someone's incorporeal mind.[/li]

Some of the drawbacks to the theory (well, dampners more than drawbacks) are:

• if the corporeal mind is capable of telekinetically reproducing its thoughts, then EVP might originate from the minds of people at the locations.  Not so far-fetched in light of the fact that the physicists frequently document the phenomenon of their own search for certain particles of matter as acting upon them and interacting with them; in other words, the mind in searching for the particle invariably finds it as though calling it to heel.  Also documented is the interaction that people have with machinery--computer technology especially--again interacting with it and affecting it on a basic kinetic level.
• add to this the fact that mechanical and digital equipment is involved in the recording of EVP, and you begin to see the potential for what we don't know about the mind acting upon what we don't know about the dead:  the mind of an investigator may be influencing the machinery to record his random thoughts!  At least the test for this would be simple enough:  Do the EVP sound like anyone in the group?  (Actually, I have to say that one of the EVP I recently captured at the San Ysidro investigation does kind of sound like me.  Hmmmm.)
• If, however, incorporeal beings are influenced by the voices of the living in their proximity, then elements of those living voices might be reproduced in the "mind" of the incorporeal being and expressed as a hybrid of its own voice someone else's; if so, then it could be very difficult to identify the author of an EVP on voice, alone.

Okay.  My brain now officially hurts.  It's someone else's volley . . .

[Joshua]

You know what....I've got the answer, I can solve this.   When I'm dead, I'll come back and tell you all exactley how it works.  Sorry, just couldnt pass that up.    The point is this, EVP's can be created  different ways, ie:  with different forms of white noise such as a fan, running water, a coffee pot, television or radio white noise....or even with out white noise.   With this being paranornal and supposed disembodied voices, I dont think we will ever, ever be able to find out exactley how it works, until we ourselves are also gone.  We do know that capturing EVP's is real....at least I believe it to be real.

[PPI Karl]

You know what....I've got the answer, I can solve this.   When I'm dead, I'll come back and tell you all exactly how it works.

. . .  ( . . .

Actually, Joshua, I think that's a brilliant idea.  Seriously.  Let me pitch an idea to you all:

Each member of PPI should be required to submit on record a sequence of three target phrases considered unique to that member.  In the event of us crossing over, team members will memorize the target phrases in order.  Then, the deceased must attempt to contact the investigation team with the use of the three target phrases in their specified order; this will identify the member to the group and act as a sort of password each time contact is made.  Next, the deceased team member will try to communicate no less and no more than three clues to explain the physics of the spirit world and its methods of communication.

In a way, this process will make us "bonded" members while alive and commit us later to the voluntary role of spiritual investigator from the other side.  Since investigators will not be able to hear the password sequence until later, no one will be able to "fudge" the results, intentionally or unintentionally.  Furthermore, if we limit the number of clues to exactly three per visitation, there will be less chance for an overly zealous interpretation of the evidence or confusion with any other unrelated EVPs that might be caught on routine investigations.  (As a public service, perhaps spirit guide Sam should be contacted and told to kick some feckin' sense into Derek Acorah.)  After each contact, a log of responses should be kept to piece together the clues.

Obviously, it's not an idea we'd hope to use anytime soon, but death is the only thing certain about what we do, so shouldn't we use that to our advantage?  Besides, people make these kind of promises to loved ones all the time.  Why not pledge part of your afterlife in the interest of science?  (Think of it as signing up for the after-school Science Club, or signing your Organ Donor card.)

Does this sound like a good idea, or is it simply too crazy?  

[Joshua]

F'n brilliant....I'm in.

[Joshua]

Oh, but you know what....I'm not actually part of the PPI Team.....but I'll still do it.

[Brian JohnsonPPI]

Count me in just as long as my phrases are monty python related. Either that or something extremely brilliant and funny that only a select number of people get like "NI".

[dwalters]

My three phrases are:

1) GET OUT!!!

2) CAN YOU HEAR ME IN THE BACK?

3) IS THIS THING ON?

[Brian JohnsonPPI]

I just thought of another phrase I would say:

Can you hear me now?

[PPI Karl]

I found this article via the T.A.P.S. website.  It's hella technical (in my opinion, anyway), but stick with it; it adds a lot to our discussion about the physics of EVP:  A Dark Matter Model of Consciousness.

See you tonight.

[jrieber]

After reading all the responses below, I am left with an image from a favorite movie of mine (it's a chick flick, guys!) GHOST.
In the movie Ghost, Patrick Swazye (the dead guy) has to work VERY hard to get an object to move for Demi Moore, so she can know he is with her. He had to practice, practice, practice- and when he finally learned how to make an object move, he also learned how much energy it took out of him.
I would like to use this example (Hollywood, as it may be) as my rationale to why EVP responses are so short, and often in a whisper.
It takes a lot out of them, so they must choose their words carefully.

(I have a few EVP that are substantially longer than the norm. I'll appreciate them much more now, since it's probable that giving a 15 second message really did them in.)

[PPI Brian]

You know what....I've got the answer, I can solve this.? ?When I'm dead, I'll come back and tell you all exactly how it works.

. . .? ( . . .

Actually, Joshua, I think that's a brilliant idea.? Seriously.? Let me pitch an idea to you all:

Each member of PPI should be required to submit on record a sequence of three target phrases considered unique to that member.? In the event of us crossing over, team members will memorize the target phrases in order.? Then, the deceased must attempt to contact the investigation team with the use of the three target phrases in their specified order; this will identify the member to the group and act as a sort of password each time contact is made.? Next, the deceased team member will try to communicate no less and no more than three clues to explain the physics of the spirit world and its methods of communication.

In a way, this process will make us "bonded" members while alive and commit us later to the voluntary role of spiritual investigator from the other side.? Since investigators will not be able to hear the password sequence until later, no one will be able to "fudge" the results, intentionally or unintentionally.? Furthermore, if we limit the number of clues to exactly three per visitation, there will be less chance for an overly zealous interpretation of the evidence or confusion with any other unrelated EVPs that might be caught on routine investigations.? (As a public service, perhaps spirit guide Sam should be contacted and told to kick some feckin' sense into Derek Acorah.)? After each contact, a log of responses should be kept to piece together the clues.

Obviously, it's not an idea we'd hope to use anytime soon, but death is the only thing certain about what we do, so shouldn't we use that to our advantage?? Besides, people make these kind of promises to loved ones all the time.? Why not pledge part of your afterlife in the interest of science?? (Think of it as signing up for the after-school Science Club, or signing your Organ Donor card.)

Does this sound like a good idea, or is it simply too crazy? ?

I think it's a great idea, Karl. I think it's something we should seriously consider.

[PPI Brian]

My three phrases are:

1) GET OUT!!!

2) CAN YOU HEAR ME IN THE BACK?

3) IS THIS THING ON?

(Delayed reaction:) ROFLMAO!

[PPI Brian]

...some EVP are the paranormal equivalent of Tourette's Syndrom:? non sequeturs blurted out against the current of whatever conversation the living are having.? (If any of you have lain awake next to someone talking in his sleep, then you know what I mean.)? I wonder what those are about.

Thoughts or theories, anyone?

I think you nailed it, Karl; I too have spent time listening to people talking in their sleep, and the similarity is astounding.

I have long wondered if the entities communicating with us via EVP exist in a kind of dream state, only partially aware of their surroundings. 

[PPI Brian]

Hey Karl,

Have you seen this article from GhostMag.com? Seems that they too feel the need to "reinvent the wheel" when it comes to EVP classifications: They go all the way to Class G! 

http://www.ghostmag.com/archives/sounds_silence.htm

Regards,

Brian Miller

[PPI Matt]

dave,
1. "is this thing on" is my line, but you can use it i guess, as long as i can too.

2. "aw sick, the one with the hats?"

3. "i wish i'd brought a book"

those will be mine to you.

-ppi matt 8)

[PPI Brian]

dave,
1. "is this thing on" is my line, but you can use it i guess, as long as i can too.

2. "aw sick, the one with the hats?"

3. "i wish i'd brought a book"

those will be mine to you.

-ppi matt 8)

Hi Matt,

Karl developed an official form for all PPI members to sign and return.  Check it out in PPI's "Document Depot".

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Awww shucks, can I haunt PPI members too?

[ttjoon]

Awww shucks, can I haunt PPI members too?

snope 

[ttjoon]

Count me in just as long as my phrases are monty python related. Either that or something extremely brilliant and funny that only a select number of people get like "NI".

1. It's only a flesh wound!

2. Come back!  I'll bite your "NI"   

3. What is the airspeed velocity of an unlaiden swallow?

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

On a serious note though, I never really read this post before until now.  What's funny is I was just thinking about something exactly like this.  Recently I was diagnosed with a problem with my lungs, I have lost 30% of my lung capacity, been getting CT scans and other tests last week to figure out what is up.  Of course on some level, I started to fear the worst, but I also started going through my head (if the worst happens) what signals I could use to let people know it was me communicating from the other side.

I plan on sending sealed envelopes with key phrases to certain people, plus some type of object in a sealed glass or plastic dome, with some type of contraption that can't be manipulated from the outside.  Hopefully these plans will be a long time off, but one never knows.