Searching for answers.........

[ljiljanac]

Hi everyone!    I hope your holiday is going great!  I would like to share my personal experiences with you and see what you all think.  Any questions or thoughts on this are most welcome.  Maybe you can help me find answers that I haven't yet found myself.....

In 1984, when I was 13 years old, I moved into an old Spanish-style house in Granada Hills, CA that had been built in the 20's or 30's.  The house was first owned by an orange orchard owner and was later purchased by a doctor.  Rumor has it that the doctor used the house as his home/office/in-patient clinic where patients were treated for various things.  Allegedly, prior to my dad buying the house, a high school student was stabbed to death in the driveway, below my bedroom window, while attending a party there.  (I have not been able to verify any of this as of yet.)  This is most of what I experienced.......

I often heard doors opening and closing.  I sometimes heard a knocking sound in closets, especially the one in a back bedroom.  I never found anything that I thought could cause the knocking sounds.

I always felt like I was being watched and followed throughout the house.  While in my room, the "watcher" made me feel safe, calm, and protected.  The second I left my room, I felt threatened and vulnerable.  I felt as if there was more then one "watcher" inside and outside of the house.  I avoided the bathroom attached to my room and took showers in the enclosed shower in the back bathroom.  I always felt like I was being watched, but less in that bathroom. 

In the middle of the night, I often heard glasses/dishes/silverware clinking, voices laughing and chatting, and music playing in the living room and bar area.  I also heard T.V. sounds coming from the living room when there was no T.V. in that part of the house.  As soon as I turned on the hall light and started walking down the hall, the sounds disppeared.  The living room was always dark and quiet.

There was a flight of stairs that led to a room and a door to the roof.  While walking down the stairs, whenever I would reach the second and especially the third step, I felt like someone was behind me with arms outstretched, reaching to push me down the stairs.  Sometimes i felt as if I could hear and feel breath to the left side of my head.

While in one half of the detached garage, I felt watched by someone through the doorway leading to the other half of the garage.  The space between the garage and the neighbors fence was always cold and dark.  I never walked through that space or into the second half of the garage out of fear that something unfriendly was there. 

One night, while lying in bed in a back bedroom, I felt a depression form on the bed on my left.  I looked and saw a depression, as if someone small were sitting on the bed or a hand was pushing down on the bed. 

Almost every night, I heard footsteps on the wooden floorboards of the hallway coming from my bedroom to my dad's bedroom (one side of the house to the other).  The footsteps always stopped at the door.  No one was ever there.  One night, I heard the footsteps stop at the door.  This time, I stayed on the bed where I was. watching T.V.  Out of the corner of my eye, I saw an old man wearing a brown hat lean into the doorway, look at me, and then lean back out of sight.  I looked and caught the last bit of his hat disappearing from my view.  I did not hear any footsteps walk away, and there was no one there.  Scared of what I saw, I called 911.  Police came out and searched the house.  Nothing was found.

The worst experience of my life in that house???....I was in the back bathroom when I heard heavy footsteps slowly walking through the dry leaves up to the window, where they stopped.  As the footsteps came closer, I heard (myself?) telling me to hide...hide now!!!  The urgency increased as the footsteps came closer.  By the time the footsteps stopped at the window, I heard (myself?) screaming at me to not move or I would die!  I dialed 911 and froze in absolute terror.  Police responded with lights and sirens, came around to the back of the house to the window, and found nothing.  I never heard footsteps or any sound leaving the window.  That was the one and only time when I felt like I was in physical danger.  I also felt like a freak.  Luckily, the two officers were my current and previous Police Explorer Advisors. 

From the time I moved in to the time I moved out, I suddenly felt an extreme dislike of my dad.  I never felt that way before I moved in or after I moved out.  He and I argued everyday.  He and I never argued before I moved in or after I moved out.  As soon as I left, the feeling went away, and our relationship was back to normal. 

A few years later, after the house was foreclosed and sold to someone else, my family and I compared stories of the house.  My dad, the biggest skeptic in the world, said he always felt like he was going to be pushed down the stairs.  I recall hearing him running down the stairs everytime he was up there.  My dad said he also felt a presence inside and outside the garage, as well as between the garage and fence.  He said he always hated walking back there.  My dad, sister, step-mom, and step-brother all said they heard noises and voices, especially at night.  I recall hearing my dad get up at night, walk to the living room, turn on the lights, turn them off, and then go back to bed.  My sister stayed in the room at the top of the stairs for a couple of weeks but then moved back down.  She said she felt like she was going to pushed down the stairs.  My step-mom said that windows would unlatch and open as soon as she turned her back to walk away from them.  She and my step-brother claimed to have heard scratching sounds on the window screens at night, as if someone or something were dragging nails down the screen.

I have always wanted to stop in and ask the current residents if they have had similar experiences.  I never had the guts to out of fear that the residents would think I was a freak.  Also, I never wanted to put ideas in their minds if they were believers in ghosts and paranormal activity.  Therefore, I had no idea how to ask.  Also, I admit, I was worried that, if I showed up, whatever was in the house would recognize me and follow me home.  To this day, I have no scientific explanations for what I experienced.......What do you think?

[PPI Jason]

Wow Lily,

It sounds like you had one of those homes that is great to investigate but terrible to live in. It simply had a little bit of everything (foot steps, feelings of anxiety, apparitions, objects moving, doors opening and closing). Each one of the events you described would make great material for Stephen King's next book. So make sure you copy right it quick before he gets a hold of it  ).

It was funny that you mentioned in the end that you had wanted to go back and talk to the newer residents to see if they had similar experiences. That was the first thing I thought of when you were discussing your experiences.

I know you, so I know you aren't the type of person to imagine things or over react. Though you WERE 13 years old at the time  . I don't know about you, but I was all kinds of messed up when I was 13. I also didn't get along well with my parents (although it miraculously stopped when I stopped being a teenager  ). Adolescents go through some pretty hard and fast physical, hormonal, and psychological changes at that stage. Some people have argued that adolescents are prone to imagining such paranormal experiences as they struggle to adapt to the changes their bodies are going through. Others have argued, instead, that such changes, and all the energy associated with those changes, actually cause paranormal events to occur. They might argue that all the energy crazy teenagers put out feeds into the environment and stirs up some pretty strange events.

But what fascinates me is the way your family also felt such things. In the end, many times, it's THAT kind of corroboration that we look for when we try to differentiate between the stuff going on in our heads and the stuff going on around us. If you're family had some of the same experiences as you, and you never told them about your experiences, it can be pretty compelling evidence of something paranormal. I also like the fact that you're aware of the impact that the "power of suggestion" can have. You mentioned that you wouldn't want to tell the new residents about your experiences because you recognize that, sometimes, just thinking about such things can turn ordinary creaks and taps into footsteps of the undead.

One of the ways that we often try to approach such complex occurances is to cut the experiences up into pieces and look at each event individually, all while looking for a rational explanation for each event. Sometimes when you look at the entire forest at once it can be overwhelming, but looking at each tree, individually, can make the task more manageable. If you can find a rational explanation for a few of the events it can help take some of the "paranormalness" out of the other events. But by the same token, if you can't find a rational explanation for ANY of the events, than all the events, in their totality, make a better case for the presence of paranormal activity.

But, like I said before, I know you. And the sheer volume and variety of experiences you mentioned, coupled with your rational character, just make it too hard for me to believe that you could have only imagined all these things so many years ago. It's experiences like these that make me do what I do. There are simply too many unexplained things happening to too many rational and normal people to simply be brushed off as psychology or over active imaginations. 

As for answers, I got nothin. I'm one of those bastards that answers a question with more questions. That way I look really smart even though I clearly don't have anything useful to contribute  . But for me, I enjoy just the thought process that the paranormal evokes. Looking at, and trying to explaine the paranormal, forces us to try and understand ourselves better. We have to understand ourselves (how we think, perceive, rationalize, explain, and feel) before we can come to terms with the world around us. Your post gives us much to think and talk about. Thank you so much for sharing. 

[ljiljanac]

Hey Jason! Thanks for your response!      After I posted this, I felt like an idiot again.  It really was hard to hit the "Post" button.  I think you can see why this is not something that I really talk about.      

You brought up something that I have wondered about for years.  It is true that I was there during my teenage "growing" years with all the teenage drama that goes along with it.  Also, there were a lot of negative family issues going on.  We were all under various types of stress that ourwardly affected us all and created a lot of negative energy in the house.  I wanted to explain everything away as the result of my imagination due to spending too much time in the house alone, hypersensitivity due to stress, and a flat out dislike for the house and my family situation that put me there.  But then my family shared their experiences, and that blew that theory out of the water for me.  So I started reading up on ghosts and the paranormal.  I read that negative energy itself generated by people living in the house can bring about strange things and paranormal activity.  For me, that reopened the possiblity that the house was in fact haunted, or that we had brought it about.  I don't know.  If you ask me right now, that place is haunted!!!!!!!! 

Also, I believe everyone is susceptible to suggestion to some degree.  The paranormal is uncomfortable for many people.  Classic example, all of the screaming people in theaters at a "Paranormal Activity" showing.  Many of the screaming people apparently went home and did not sleep that night.  Many people are not used to looking for a practical, scientific, or mathmatical explanation for wierd things that happen.  In many cases, it impacts their day-to-day lives and comfort levels.  I do not want to be one to put a thought or idea into someone's mind about the paranormal and have no hard proof to back it up.   

I regret not saying anything to my family back then.  For all I know, our round table discussion could have happened while we were still living in the house.  We could have had the house investigated and researched its history better.  Now, the house is not ours.  Before we moved out, my dad carpeted the hallway.  Since we moved out, the new owners remodeled at least the outside and put up a fence.  Every time I go up there, I pass by and hope someone is outside.  I imagine striking up a conversation and seeing where it goes.  The gate is always closed though, and no one is ever outside.  And, knocking on the door has been out of the question...."Hi!  My name is Lillie, and I used to live here.  Are there strange things going bump in the night?"   ::|   Ummmmm, nah. 

Question though.....is it possible for a family or persons to experience these things, but then another family to move in and experience nothing? 

     

       

[PPI Jason]

Question though.....is it possible for a family or persons to experience these things, but then another family to move in and experience nothing? 

Just so you know, Lily, I don't think you have any reason to feel like and idiot. No matter how other people may try to explain away your experiences, or even if they provide legitimate alternative explanations, in the end you are the only person that was actually there and the only person that has the best first hand understanding of what happened. But that's just my opinion, and I have been called an idiot before, sooooo........ ::|

And as for your question, I think it is entirely possible for a family to have experiences that then end when the family moves out. Maybe the events are centered around a person or persons. In that case, the activity should end when that person leaves. Maybe there was a spirit that lived there that just didn't get along with a particular family member living there at the time. As soon as the person moves out, maybe the spirit settles down. Maybe that person just rubbed the spirit the wrong way. Or maybe that person rubbed the spirit the right way (my apologies to Christina Aguilera for that pun). If a ghost has an issue with women, then maybe the activity only picks up when women are present. Or maybe there is some type of reaction that occurs when the energy of one person meets the energy of a certain location. Maybe it's like a "square" person staying at a "square" location. Maybe the new resident is a "triangle" and there just isn't the same type of chemistry. There are lots of possible explanations. In the end, I guess, there really isn't any known law of paranormal science that says that a new family moving into an old residence has to experience the same things a prior family experienced. Just a thought.

[PPI Tim]

Hi Lily,
That house you once lived in sounds interesting. As I was reading your post, I could help wonder about the wiring and plumbing of the house.  A lot of times those house that were built in the 20's and 30's had some very creative wiring and plumbing. (light sockets and copper pipe located in strange places).  I'm wondering what would a EMF sweep come up with as far as readings. Who knows, we might get a call about that place one day.

[PPI Karl]

Lily, I appreciate your detail and your candor about your experiences.  As you and Jason have said already, that nagging 20/20 hindsight is always the worst part, isn't it?  If you had possessed the wherewithal to study the problem logically while it was happening; if only you could return to the new owners to obtain a baseline comparison of experiences; if only you had an objective understanding of your own frame of mind when you were 13; and so on.  Still, it's that kind of thinking from which you can draw strength as an investigator because it inspires you to think about what you could do for someone else that you didn't think of doing or couldn't do for yourself.  I think, for many of us, the mystery of our past, allegedly paranormal experiences coupled with our skepticism inspires the kind of investigative methodologies we adopt.  I give you a great deal of credit for looking at your past in this probing and open-minded way.

One pattern I noticed in your accounts of paranormal experiences is the prevalence of audible phenomena and subjective personal experiences:  you and your family remember hearing a lot of different sounds that were identified, but not necessarily confirmed, to be footsteps, rustling, voices, window latches, and so on.  Naturally, I wouldn't be so arrogant as to dismiss any of your claims; that would be just as false a response as believing unconditionally that you encountered demons, or some other example of "extreme haunting."  However, audible phenomena do make up a large majority of the claims of our clients, and in order to examine them rationally we have to consider what else could make the sounds in a manner that the mind might interpret as something else.  Footsteps in particular are a common element of our cases.  You mentioned that this older home had hardwood floors, and this alone could possibly account for some of the experiences.  I've lived in several houses from the same era you describe, also with hardwood floors, and it's common for the floorboards to resonate sounds sometimes from the other side of the house.  The house infrastructure could be the source of some of the sounds, too:  expanding pipes; creaking joists; vermin under the house; even termites.  A spigot dripping into a cast iron bathtub can transform into the advancing footfalls of an invisible intruder.  This very thing happened to my sister and me when we were teenagers alone in the house while my parents were away for the night; we were perhaps just two minutes away from calling the police about an intruder before discovering that an odd, intermittent sound in the basement furnace was resonating up through the floor of the house.  In retrospect, seeing myself brandishing a badminton racquet for protection as we slowly opened the door to the scary space behind the furnace makes me laugh, but at the time I imagined scenarios that just reinforced my certainty that were we in peril.  I don't think I was ever more terrified.

I think you've already intuited what's so darned difficult to address about a case like yours:  separating the "real" paranormal phenomena from psychological ones.  Fear is a psychosomatic experience, after all.  One's body reacts in a very real, physical way to emotional and psychological stimuli, so it's hard to know sometimes the difference between what's externally reality and what's internal reality.  Add twenty-five years, and memory will blur the lines between them even further.  I admire the skeptical attitude you've developed, though, about these experiences and what they could mean for others' claims of paranormal activity.

[ljiljanac]

Jason....An idiot you are not.  If you were, you wouldn't be you.      

Tim...The pipes were definitely old copper pipes.  I have no idea how they were routed through the house.  I believe most of it, if not all, was routed under the house.  I could be wrong.  I see that house as a lost opportunity.  I actually look it up online now and then to see if that house comes up.  So far, nothing.

Karl....Thanks for sharing the badminton racket and the near-911 call.  I definitely don't feel alone anymore.    I wish I had been that brave to thoroughly investigate the sounds myself.  The most I ever did was check a closet or look around corners. 

I'm going back up there to visit my dad in a week or so.  I'm thinking now that I may stop in, introduce myself, tell them I love the remodel on the outside, and (as long as they don't look like ax-murderers or hungry zombies) see if they offer me a tour of the inside and see what happens.     

Thanks you all for the great feedback and support on this!  It felt good "talking" about it and hearing your take on it.  I appreciate it. 

[ljiljanac]

I went by my dad's old house a few days ago.  It was 11pm, so it was all dark.  Wow, that house has been remodeled and the property redone!  There were different cars in the driveway then there were before.  I wonder if the house has changed hands again.  I am going back to Granada Hills tomorrow (Sunday) and will more than likely stop and say hello to the residents.  I plan on telling them that I used to live there years ago and was curious to see it after all the remodeling.  We'll see where that goes!!!  How exciting and weird at the same time!   

[Gary]

Hey good luck with that Lily!  Hope it goes well.   

[ljiljanac]

Well....I did it.  I stopped by the house.  AND!......no one was home except for three little white poodles.  I got a good look at the house, snapped a couple of pics with my cell phone ( I have no idea how to link them onto my post ), and knocked on the front door.  No answer.  The curtains were wide open, and I got a pretty good look at the inside.....and promptly felt as if the house was looking back at me.  NO JOKE.  No sooner did I look inside than I felt that something was looking back at me.  The dogs actually mellowed the feeling out.  I am assuming that it was all in my mind.  Without actually going inside, there is really no way to tell.  All I know is it was a weird feeling.  Was I recalling feelings of the past?  Maybe.  Am I betting that I was?  Oh heck no!!!!!!!  That house still has an air about it that just makes my skin crawl.  I left my card with my phone number on it.  We'll see.........   

[ljiljanac]

I am attempting to post a pic of the famous house in my life (haha!).....it's not that great of a picture.....cell phones....what do you do.   

[ljiljanac]

I think it worked....thanks again, Gary   

[PPI Brian]

Hi Lillie,

I modified your post so we could see the picture without downloading it. Looks haunted to me!  Seriously, it looks like a pretty big house. How many square feet would you say it is?

[ljiljanac]

Cool!  Thanks, Brian!  I have no idea how many square feet, but I'll ask my dad the next time I talk to him.  I never got a phone call after leaving my card.  I'm kinda bummed out about that because the remodeling is not as extensive as I thought.  The inside (from what I could see through the window) looks pretty much the same.  It was dim and shadowy inside, and it gave me the eebie-jeebie's!  I admit I was kind of hoping the resident would call and invite me there.  I was looking at it as a potential case.  Bummer.