Scared to Death Curious?

[pearsosl]

Ok I would like to talk about the fascination with ghosts while at the same time having fear and/or strong emotions about it.  Having a hard time putting a finger on what this thing is exactly.
I watch Ghost Hunters and never miss an episode thanks to my trusty DVR.  In fact I am a slave to my DVR but that's got to be for another forum.  I would like to think that I could do an investigation somewhere, but in reality I know the sad truth.  I would be looking for something to happen and making a mess of it all in giddy fits of laughter.  How embarrassing.  I have been known while watching Ghost Hunters to even cry?!?  What the heck is that?  Is that a personal issue?  I hate to think I am that messed up.  I like to believe it is just the release of knowing that there are spirits out there and in getting proof of this I cry because it is so amazing.  Any other weirdos like me out there.  Please help.  Even if you are not as weird as me but would still like to help me understand.
Thanks!

[PPI Karl]

Nothing is so personal, and so emotional, to us as our relationship with the grave.? It doesn't matter how much we isolate ourselves in life or socialize, we know in our heart of hearts death is something we will experience alone, and because of that there's nothing quite as lonely as thoughts of death.

I think for many of us--myself, included--the prospect of a community of afterlife spirits where our forever-gone loved ones are waiting for us fills me with a mixture of mirth and apprehension.? It might help you to know (or, if you already know, to be reminded) what the source of human laughter is physiologically.?Psychologists explain primate laughter as an emotional outburst lying exactly halfway between a sob and a scream.? In effect, it's a response to anything that makes us feel ambivalent:? we're not sure if we're supposed to be sad or if we're supposed to run screaming out of fear.? (Hence, all comedy is based in irony:? the unexpected contradiction of feelings that surprises us.)? For example, at the gruesome moment in a horror film, why do we so often burst into laughter?? True, it's nervous laughter, but what makes us so nervous?? It's the confusion of our fear and the knowledge that we are not actually in danger.? That contradiction is ironic, and so it is funny, and so we laugh.

Watching Ghost Hunters or participating in a paranormal investigation might elicit laughter from you because both of these are inherently bittersweet experiences, caught between sadness about death and fear of the unknown, or between the seriousness of the ramifications of these (that there are states of being after mortal existence) and the sadness that comes with realizing these spirits exist only after a journey of grief, loss and pain.? Some days you lean toward one end of the spectrum more than the other, so you find yourself crying or covering your gaze in panic.? However, most days you're just caught exactly between the two emotions, so you laugh.

Not to put too fine a point on it, you're behaving exactly as you should.? You sound like you've got a normal, healthy psychological reaction to the complex feelings that a paranormal investigation should cause if you're reacting to it emotionally, rather than logically.? And there's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.? Until modern science can prove life beyond death, we can do naught but react to the paradox of being alive and anticipating the mystery of death.? At best, it's always going to be a three-hanky affair for me.? (

[dwalters]

I'm sure everyone remembers the episode of Ghost Hunters when they were on the Queen Mary. If you remember as well as I do, and I'm sure most of you do, Steve and Tango go to change out the tape in room B-340 only to find out that the bed has actually turned itself down. Steve and Tango are so excited, like little children at Christmas time and they can't wait to see if they actually caught it on tape.....they did. They showed us thier reaction as they watch the little 3.5 inch display of thier camcorder....they are beside themselves and they show it to us on the full screen of our television...only to cut to commercial right afterwards. At least that's how I remember it. Those two minutes and 30 seconds were the longest two minutes and thirty seconds of my life. I sat there with my mouth wide open the entire time, just in complete shock and awe. I couldn't believe what they had captured...a tear was trickling down my cheek. The show comes back on and Tango finds that the tape had been tampered with. I felt like I had just lost a loved one....I seriously felt completely let down, confused, mad...my thoughts and emotions were going crazy. So I will admit to shedding a tear while watching an episode of Ghost Hunters.

Now, is it weird that I have actually shed a bunch of tears for a McDonald's commercial? I little girl was reading a book, and she finishes the book...her first book she's read all by herself. Her mom wants to give her a little treat for such a great accomplishment so she takes her to McDonald's. The little girl can read now, so she's reading the menu by herself....the camera trucks back to reveal she is reading a menu in braile (spelling), and she says..."A Happy Meal Please". That just destroyed me...I started sobbing and sniffling and crying...even as I type this...this memory is that freaking powerful. WHY? Why does this do this to me?

[pearsosl]

Hahaha. Dave you sound hilarious.  I only laugh at your McDonald's commercial story because I have cried a couple different times at commercials similar to that, only to later ponder why and then laugh at myself.  It's great to know we all are just human sometimes.
Also, I distinctly remember the Queen Mary episode and when I watched it I was also very angry.  I really wanted to find out who did it and hold them responsible, but that could be a "rage" issue!  Haha.
Thank you both for your quick replies. I do appreciate them both and read them with great interest.

[Sarah]

I can't really add much to the last two posts.  They said it all.  It happens to everyone, and I've done it too.  I don't want something like this to stop you from ghost hunting, though, if that's something you really want to do.  There's lots of places you can go to where it wouldn't matter if you broke down and cried or laughed out loud.  The only time I'm really concerned about something like this on a hunt is when there's homeowners or business owners involved that could misinterpret it as mocking them or their situation.  Other than that, join hunts that are going somewhere that advertise their haunts.  Go on a ghost tour or two, or join a group investigating a public place.  In my last group was a girl who'd cry every single time we went out.  She knew she would and just didn't go on hunts that it might be inappropriate.  When she'd start, she'd leave and pull herself together and come back when she was ready.  Everybody in the group was supportive and understanding, and just accepted her emotions because we've all choked back tears or nervous laughter.  Really, the only thing that should stop you is if you sincerely believe you won't be able to live with first hand actual knowledge of ghosts.  It's also possible you can get used to it and be fine later on for places you couldn't go before.  I guess I'm just saying that if you really want to hunt ghosts and investigate, then this doesn't have to stop you.  Good luck!

[Renae]

Ok I would like to talk about the fascination with ghosts while at the same time having fear and/or strong emotions about it.? Having a hard time putting a finger on what this thing is exactly.
I watch Ghost Hunters and never miss an episode thanks to my trusty DVR.? In fact I am a slave to my DVR but that's got to be for another forum.? I would like to think that I could do an investigation somewhere, but in reality I know the sad truth.? I would be looking for something to happen and making a mess of it all in giddy fits of laughter.? How embarrassing.? I have been known while watching Ghost Hunters to even cry?!?? What the heck is that?? Is that a personal issue?? I hate to think I am that messed up.? I like to believe it is just the release of knowing that there are spirits out there and in getting proof of this I cry because it is so amazing.? Any other weirdos like me out there.? Please help.? Even if you are not as weird as me but would still like to help me understand.
Thanks!

Actually I also cry when I watch GH. but I am still drawn to the show like a moth to a flame. I get an overwhelming sense of sorrow when I hear ghost stories, I have had that reaction all my life. There is something about a ghost that is just terribly sad. As for fear, for me , I get more of an adrenaline rush than fear, and it's more of a feeling I get when something just is not right.? I have also learned that excitement can get me into trouble, sort of like a cat that pursues a bird too far up a tree, but then most my experience with the supernatural has been in the context of spiriual warfare. (praying for people) I doubt I would be much good on a ghost hunt, I look at the evidence videos and see nothing until about the fifth time I look, and unless someone tells me what to listen for I never hear EVPs either, and I can matrix images on a blank canvas, a tile floor, or a wooden panel. my one real strength is I KNOW how to pray.

Renae

[pearsosl]

Interestingly enough my sister-in-law was getting powers or whatever you want to call it "gifts" towards spiritual warfare.  She wasn't comfortable with it though so I think she stopped persuing it.  She said one time she had a bad spirit confront her in her house right around the time she was starting to pray hard core, and that was pretty much it for her.  After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I started to think about what she had told me.  I kind of think based on what she has told me that there is a war going on.  I never would have thought that in a million years (even though I am Christian) except for the things she has said.  I mean I do go to church at least once a month, but I am usually bored while I am there and secretly trying to asses the pastor's intellectual ability as he drones on and on.  So I am not what you might consider "devoted".  But I do now have more of an appreciation for those who are devoted.
I think for my sis-in-law because she has four kids she felt it wasn't right to possibly bring such a thing into her home.  I mean the bad spirit that wasn't happy with her "new-found powers" definitely made it known to her that was why he was there.

Maybe we could have a discussion on these type of spirits.  I mean is there such a thing as religious spirits vs. normal ones?  What does everyone else think?  I suppose spirits could have jobs like we do here.  It seems from the postings I have read that certain ones do have goals, but definitely not all of them do.

[Renae]

Interestingly enough my sister-in-law was getting powers or whatever you want to call it "gifts" towards spiritual warfare.? She wasn't comfortable with it though so I think she stopped persuing it.? She said one time she had a bad spirit confront her in her house right around the time she was starting to pray hard core, and that was pretty much it for her.? After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I started to think about what she had told me.? I kind of think based on what she has told me that there is a war going on.? I never would have thought that in a million years (even though I am Christian) except for the things she has said.? I mean I do go to church at least once a month, but I am usually bored while I am there and secretly trying to asses the pastor's intellectual ability as he drones on and on.? So I am not what you might consider "devoted".? But I do now have more of an appreciation for those who are devoted.
I think for my sis-in-law because she has four kids she felt it wasn't right to possibly bring such a thing into her home.? I mean the bad spirit that wasn't happy with her "new-found powers" definitely made it known to her that was why he was there.

Maybe we could have a discussion on these type of spirits.? I mean is there such a thing as religious spirits vs. normal ones?? What does everyone else think?? I suppose spirits could have jobs like we do here.? It seems from the postings I have read that certain ones do have goals, but definitely not all of them do.

OY VEY!!! That is a WHOLE  lot of things I feel compelled to adress!
I apologise ahead of time to those who will feel this is not a forum for religious rantings, but these are things that NEED to be talked about and addressed

Rena goes into wariror mode:
Okay this quite a bit to deal with
"Interestingly enough my sister-in-law was getting powers or whatever you want to call it "gifts" towards spiritual warfare.  She wasn't comfortable with it though so I think she stopped persuing it.  She said one time she had a bad spirit confront her in her house right around the time she was starting to pray hard core, and that was pretty much it for her.  After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I started to think about what she had told me.  I kind of think based on what she has told me that there is a war going on....I think for my sis-in-law because she has four kids she felt it wasn't right to possibly bring such a thing into her home.  I mean the bad spirit that wasn't happy with her "new-found powers" definitely made it known to her that was why he was there."

#1 there is a very real spiritual war going on, and we are all in in, either passivly watching it and getting wounded by the shrapnel, or activly in the battle.
If you are a Christian you are a target. very often when a person begins to exercise the power of prayer the nemy challenges that person, If the enemy can take a warrior out by making them fearfulthen the enemy has gained power.
I want to take your sister in law but the shoulders and tell her "YOU NEVER BACK DOWN FROM AN EVIL SPIRIT! If you do you will will have unwittingly invited it to harass you , and you remain subject to it until you take authority over it in the name of Jesus. God does not give you the gift without giving you the authority." I would also want to tell your sister in law to talk to the other members of her prayer team about what happened. When spirits manifest themselves the first thing I do is call on Jesus to help me, oddly enough one of the times I got confronted in my own home, I prayed "Jesus help me" and I took authority over the spirit, this is where it gets odd: three of my friends with whom I pray with regularly called me within 10 minutes, and agreed with me in prayer. It occurs to me that she may have had this problem because she might have been playing "Lone Ranger". That is entering into spiritual warfare without support from her church, or within a team of fellow prayer wariors. Playing Lone Ranger is NOT a good idea.

"I mean I do go to church at least once a month, but I am usually bored while I am there and secretly trying to asses the pastor's intellectual ability as he drones on and on.  So I am not what you might consider "devoted". "

If you are bored in church I'd have to say you are in the wrong church. READ First Corinthians, and pay spaecial attention to chapter 12, where it talks about Christians being a body of believers. If you think about it it means we each have a specific place to be, and a specific funtion to do. We all know what happens in our own bodies if a specific part does not do it's work, well one tactic the enemy has is to discourage believers from showing up at church to be fed, and empowered by the preaching og the word of God. Believe it or not my dear, you ARE in a war and you specificly are under attack. one way to know you are under atack is when you lose enterest in comuning with other believers, and you lose your appetite for reading, and studying the bible. Some pastors do NOT preach the word, and in consequence their churches become empty mousoleums, full of bored people who assemble for the social priveleges rather than for spiritual edification.
When I had to find a new church I made a list of what I needed from a church, and prayed over it, then when I got invited to a church I interviewed the pastor and went over my list with him. When I found a church that met my criteria I went there.
My list is as follows:
~Must belive that the Bible is  a supernatural book that is the word of God, and no other book compares to it.
~The sermons MUST be expository bible studies.
~Must have prayer and praise incorporated as part of the worship service.
~Must support mission teams with at least 10% of the church income.
~must have a laity missions program
~the church must have a local program of social impact (Feeds the poor, visits inmates, affects local politics)
~Must have an active women's prayer ministry, and deep bible study.
~Must have an active men's prayer group and bible study.
(there is a good reason for this, people who pray together bond together in a deeply spiritual way, and a woman and a man who are not married REALLY should not regularly pray with each other on a one - to one  basis - it's how a lot of affairs have gotten started.)

~Must have an active recovery program for the spiritually wounded (My church has Overcomer's Outreach)
~The church must offer free counseling from a licenced therapist (who is also a believer) to members who have ongoing social difficulties (marital discord, chronic depression, substance abuse, etc) Preferably  female counselors for women and male counselors for men.
~IF I had kids I would also want specific ministrie that aplied to them , but I don't have kids, unless you count the fuzzbutts.
There must also be home bible study groups that meet on a weekly basis that have a strong core of prayer and praise.

My advice is if your church does not have these things, find, and attend one that does.


"Maybe we could have a discussion on these type of spirits.  I mean is there such a thing as religious spirits vs. normal ones?  What does everyone else think?  I suppose spirits could have jobs like we do here.  It seems from the postings I have read that certain ones do have goals, but definitely not all of them do."

One thing I find lacking in the GH (TAPS 18+) bullitin board is an open and honest discussion of these types of spirits. there is all sorts of investigaings of hauntings, but no investigating of active churches where there SHOULD be a lot of spiritual activity. but then there needs to be a serious respect for what is holy, and perhaps it is out of respect for what is holy that I have never heard of anyone showing up to a prarer meeting with ghost hunting equipment.

Renae

[dwalters]

I just wanted to chime in on this. I am very aware that I could get some tempers fuming with this...and frankly, that's just too darn bad. It's my teams site, and I am the founder of this group so I will speak when I want, about what I want. I do not want a "holy" war on my forum board! And it's just not going to happen. I have this magical "delete" button and I can filter out messages that I find don't fit in. I believe in "beliefs"...not everyone will believe a "holy" war is going on, so do not assume that there is one going on in a "matter of fact" kind of a way. That is what YOU believe is happening. Someone has persuaded you into believing this, and to you it's as real as can be...I understand that. You MUST keep an open mind on both ends of the spectrum here. Is there a Holy War going on.....could be, sure...but who knows for sure? The door swings both ways on this board, and I'm ALL ABOUT hearing all sides of the coin....just don't be a dictator. You have to use words like "maybe", "possible", "could be", "I tend to think", "I could be wrong...but this is what I feel"...and so on. Respect those who will disagree, and you will earn respect from everyone.

Now that I got that out of the way in a VERY light way....let's move on to that last quote.

One thing I find lacking in the GH (TAPS 18+) bullitin board is an open and honest discussion of these types of spirits. there is all sorts of investigaings of hauntings, but no investigating of active churches where there SHOULD be a lot of spiritual activity. but then there needs to be a serious respect for what is holy, and perhaps it is out of respect for what is holy that I have never heard of anyone showing up to a prarer meeting with ghost hunting equipment.

I happen to be a Catholic, I was born a Catholic, baptized Catholic and Confirmed Catholic. I attended Mass for more than half my life, regularly, on every Sunday, every Holy Day of Obligation, and I confessed my sins regularly to a complete stranger who, in my mind, was even more pure than I could ever be. I attended CCD from grade 1 to grade 12. I don't anymore. I don't go to Mass, I don't say regular prayers, I don't practice Lent anymore....I just don't practice the traditional ways like I used to. I DO live my life as a Catholic...I respect everyone no matter what their sexual preferences are, no matter what religion they are, no matter what race they are....no matter WHAT....until I am disrespected, you will have my respect...not necessarily my trust though. Shoot....you can't even trust a Roman Catholic Priest to be pure now days can you? The reason why I gave you my religious resum? is simply because I have plenty of experiences filming in a church. Filming weddings, filming funerals, filming wedding rehearsals, first holy communions, confirmations...you name it. One thing ALL these have in common? PRAYER...LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS OF PRAYER. By not just a group of 10, but in groups of 80 to 120...MASSIVE PRAYER!!!! There is absolutely no such thing as "GHOST HUNTING" equipment...there are tools that we use, tools that were designed for other things that just so happen to useful in locating and recording strange paranormal anomolies. Camcorders being one of them...Camcorders being probably the most efficient way of collecting data, logging experiences, keeping track of where everyone is, collecting EVP (it does have a very sensitive mic on it). I have NEVER caught any "paranormal" activity on video at a church where there's prayer in mass numbers. Prayer is NOT an entity, it is NOT a spirit, it is NOT energy....it has no paranormal aspect to it...it is who you are praying to that holds those treasures. If I have an EMF meter strapped to my head as I start to pray...it will not spike up. Those stupid videos of those crazies dancing around "feeling the lord"....and some dude reaches thier hand out and smacks the poor schmuck in the forehead and screams "DEMONS OUT!"....WOW, so much paranormal activity is going on right? All these HUNDREDS of people dancing and feeling the Lord, and that one guy has the power of the Lord to knock out the impurities and deadly sins...WOW WOW WOW....oh my GOSH....fact of the matter is, it's a scam. How he is able to find these poor souls and have them actually believe his word is paranormal in itself. Truth of the matter is if there was the power of the Lord in that room with them....those cameras wouldn't be working, those lights would be flickering on and off like crazy....all the energy would be going haywire....and those people wouldn't be dancing around like hippies on acid. They would be in such a relaxed peaceful state...like a trance. That's what is preached...that's not my preaching.

So, sorry to offend those who where offended. I just had to chime in.

Like I said, I am a Catholic...and yet I type all this. Did I turn on my religion? Maybe in your opinion....but in mine, all I am doing is finding my own answers. I do believe that you have to fight fire with fire. IF and WHEN we do get a "Demonic" haunt...I will call on the church to come in and fight that battle with us. It has to be "Demonic" in order for me to do this, but it is my solution to the problem....to fight fire with fire. It will also involve a lot of teeth pulling with a select few of my members, but when they meet a demon, I'm sure they will agree.

[pearsosl]

Hey Dave,
I really did not expect the reaction I received from Renae and I apologize if I did anything to offend anyone.  I only wanted open discussion on a topic I was interested in.  As an educator I like to hear all sides of an issue or even just to gather information on topics even if they don't agree with mine.  I would never impose on anyone to agree with me on something like that.  Now if we were debating something as clear cut as Macs vs. PCs I would have to be a little more persuasive I am afraid. ;-)  Macs Rule.

[Renae]

Thank you for not deleting me or locking me out of the forum.
I apologize for not couching what I believe in thr proper disclaimers suche as "This is my experience, your mileage may differ"

I do not want to offend. As I have stated before, pretty much? most of anything paranormal I have experienced has been iin the context of spiritual warfare. I knew when I typed what I typed others are from other belief systems, and I truly want to hear what they think. In my not so humble opinion, one proof that I am NOT a god, and this universe is not something I imagine, is thatI am not in control of much, almost no one fully agrees with me on any given subject, and there is ALWAYS someone who knows more about whatever i want to talk about than I know.

I also believe it is important to respect other people's belief systems. Still I can see how my statements may not have communicated that respect. However my reply was in the context of my belief system, to another person of the same belief system. I could give you my religious resume, but it was a long and windung path, with more than a few wrong turns. Posting it would likely tick off a few people. Still also have the utmost respect for the Catholic Church, as well as other religious traditions. Stinkers seem to come in all? religions, andpretty much every ethnicity, and belief system has someone whose soul is greedy and perverse who uses a position of trust to harm people. And while yes there are real stinkers out there proffessing to represent God, there are also some honest men and women of every ethnicity, and creed who seek to serve God in what ever capacity they can. Personally I do not argue over dogma. I do not have a degree in theology, or philosophy, and my own convictions take me off the beaten path that some believe all should adhere to. My style is to focus on what I have in common with others, and stay in the context of what I know to be true: that is that there is a whole lot other people know that I don't know. I also respect people until someone makes an assumption about my character based on my skin colr, my belief sysem, or my sexual orientation. Trust is a thing all people must earn.

I do agree with you that "Prayer is NOT an entity, it is NOT a spirit, it is NOT energy....it has no paranormal aspect to it...it is who you are praying to that holds those treasures." However; I am also certain something supernatural does happen when people pray, and I have to wonder why I don't see a bunch of odd anomalies posted on You Tube that were filmed during someone's wedding, baptism, or funeral. I would think SOMETHING amazing would happen once in a while. And while I plead guilty of being a Christian of the Charismatic variety, who thinks worshiping God ought to be loud,and joyful, I do respect those for whom worship is more of a meditative experience. I think worship is a lot like a diamond, in that it has many facets, most of which are conected to each other in some way. Sometimes I like to sing and dance, sometimes when I have the money I like to pay for someone elses groceries, sometimes I whisper "WOW!' when I watch the sunset. Sometimes I just wash the dishes without kvetching about it.

I also think most of the preachers on TV are driven by greed and perversity, and while there is likely to be a few who truly do love God with al of their heart, and all of their soul, living under the magnifying glass of public scrutiny is not, from what I observe, a life to be desired. I am reasonably certain that human beings are flawed, and when one claims to represent God, every imperfection will be magnified until it becomes obvious wht the person's true agenda is.? I also believe that every human has the responsibility to examine what people say and do before they decide to follow someone as a leader. (Which is why I do not watch the religious TV shows: It's the same reason I don't watch "Almost Haunted", all too often those people are more than "a half a bubble off center"

Again I apologise to you, and to those I offended. I did feel the need to respond the way I responded. In my belief system you do not leave a sister hanging in what may not be a good situation without at least saying something.

Renae

Modifd when I realised I made another arrogant mistake: I apologised, but I forgot to ask for your forgiveness.
Dqave, and others I have offended; Please forgive me.
Renae

[dwalters]

No need to ask me for forgivness...I'm good. Thanks though....in all honesty, you didn't really set me off at all...but I could easily see how others could be. Religion is not welcomed by most these days.

[shieldmaiden]

I just cry when nothing else is on and I am forced to watch "Most Haunted"....lol

[Tim]

I cry everytime I see that Saturday Night Live scit on "Most Haunted"
Tim