Heya PPI, I know I have never met most of you, but I greatly respect your opinions and point of view. In some book discussions and other threads we have nipped around the sensitive topic, but never really got into it. I would love to have a serious discussion about sensitives and to hear from the people who's opinions I have learned to respect so much. I know that some of you like Dave think that 99.99% of sensitives are fake, and that's fine, I would love to hear from you as well.
I'll keep this post as a header, and post my own opinions in the next post.
Unlike Dave, I actually believe that everybody is psychic or sensitive to some extent or another. I think it's a part of us that has always been there like a survival instinct or simply a part of our brain that most don't really use. The problem is that most people learn or believe themselves out of this ability as they grow up, or possibly even that most peoples minds are to "busy" to actually pay attention to this part of them. It's also extremely hard to sort this ability out from intuition or imagination, so it can easily be dismissed as such.
I think of being psychic or sensitive like it's an art form. Anybody can pick up a brush and paint, but for some of us (me included) no matter how much training or instruction I get, you will never call what I paint art. So while we all may be able to "paint" rare is the few who can paint like the masters. Of course there is a wide range in painting skills as well. I think that it's not fair to call all psychics or sensitives "fake" or "frauds" because that implies they have no skill whatsoever, but rather that they may be "bad," meaning they don't interepret things right or have less control of their gifts.
I also don't think that this ability is something that is on all the time, if it was, true psychics would never be wrong. I think that a "good" psychic can use it most of the time, but not all the time. That is what I think is the problem with people like Sylvia Brown or John Edwards, they may actually be right a large percentage of the time, but what's often remembered is the times when they are wrong. The problem is that none of these "true" psychics will ever say "it's not working today, come back tomorrow." No, people EXPECT results from them, so they better give them. This leads to imagination kicking in, guessing, and cheap tricks like planting microphones as a backup in case it is an "off" day. I would have far more belief in John Edwards or Sylvia Brown if they ever just said "sorry, I'm not getting anything."
With sensitives on investigations, it gets even harder. Many may feel it's their "job" to sense stuff, that's what they are there for. So if they arn't sensing stuff, they are not doing their job. This can cause imagination to fill in the blanks, or even just making stuff up. The person may not even know what they are doing, because they can't tell imagination from true visions. Then you also hit the problem that in order to really use your "gift" you need to believe in it, which can lead to lots of ego and self confidence. This can lead to lots of stubborness if you try and explain a feeling with a logical reason for it.
Well as usual this is getting long, sorry about that, but the above pretty much explains what I think are a lot of the problems with many sensitives or psychics. Yet all of that being said, I have decided to use them with FPIE, well sorta.
First off, I have had many experiances throughout my life, apparitions, voices, and other stuff. I honestly can't say what was observed with normal senses or not, plus I have had some pretty convincing experiences that have shown me that there is "something" there. I wont ever call myself psychic and hate the term sensitive, I'm leaning towards Intuitive I guess. Until recently, I never really did anything to develop this part of me, but now I am reading books, and seeking guidance and such, in the hopes of developing it more. To me the very fact that I know I "suck" at it, is a control of sorts, but also may limit me in some ways.
A perfect example of what I mean happened a little while back. I had a dream that there was a volcanic eruption in San Diego, it was a pretty vivid dream with lots of details. I saw Lava flowing down a mountain, ash all over my truck, and we were forced to evacuate our home. It was a really strong dream, and if I had faith in my abilities, I would have ran around yelling "VOLCANO!" and became a laughingstock. Yet about a week later is when the wildfires happened, and everything I saw in my dream was exactly replayed. My dream wasn't wrong, but rather my interpretation of it was. I live in Spring Valley near Sweetwater Resevoir, on the East side of the resevoir is a decent size mountain that the fire burned down the side of. In the dark, the strings of fire working down the mountain looked exactly like Lava flows, hence my Volcano theory. The ash on my truck and us evacuating obviously came true as well. This wasn't meant as a proof of my intuitivity, but rather as how easy it is to misinterpret things.
I feel pretty confident that I can filter and screen myself on investigations, it didn't seem right to exclude other "Intuitives" as long as they are willing to do the same. I also find it odd to say as a paranormal group that we believe in Ghosts and other stuff, but we don't believe in the powers of the Mind. Plus, I would love to actually correlate Intuitive experiences with things such as EMF spikes and other measurements. Getting the impression of the name Elvis, then an EVP singing Jailhouse Rock would be a nice correllation example ;) That correllation will never happen if we didn't have intuitives there.
My goal in FPIE is the "responsible use" of Intuitives. Quiet, discreet, with actually no pressure to function. In fact, I wouldn't expect somebody who see's things everywhere to last long. I'm totally cool with the sensitive who is standing in the middle of a field of apparitions who doesn't sense anything, you better be taking pictures though ;D. Everybody will be expected to use normal equipment first, and any Intuitive experiance will be treated as a personal experiance. Which is all it is afterall, because it can't be verified by anybody else.
I doubt many sensitives or psychics will want to function in such an envrioment, but maybe some will. I'm not expecting anything from them, that I don't expect of myself.
Yes I agree with you because science says we do not use all of our brains. Just like the oceans on earth we do not know very much about certain areas. Sensitives are not real but psychics are. They know how to use other parts of the brain. That my opinon.
You guys are killing me, all these views and no comments!
Bellaghoste, why do you consider Psychics are real but sensitives are not? I always considered them to be mostly just different names for the same thing, although Psychic tends to be used more for people who make a living from it.
I think both are different reason being sensitives feel presents not see or sometime do not or can not comunicate with spirits.
Quote from: MichaelF (FPIE) on May 23, 2008, 09:36:10 PM
You guys are killing me, all these views and no comments!
Bellaghoste, why do you consider Psychics are real but sensitives are not? I always considered them to be mostly just different names for the same thing, although Psychic tends to be used more for people who make a living from it.
Sorry, Mike. I've been super busy and haven't had a chance to digest this thread. I will mull it over and add my two cents on the subject very soon. :)
Michael,
I ditto Brian.
I will tell you this much though; I do think there are people out there that are sensitive and truly psychic. I have a friend who is one and she was "dead on" when it came to a situation that I was dealing with not too long ago. Let's put it this way; she described my father to a tee and also described what he was wearing when he passed away. She also was able to tell me some things about my childhood that no one else could have possibly known unless you were in my family.
This is a subject that I could write a thesis on, but I will spare you the agony. Let me really think about it and I'll post something else soon.
I failed to mention that she met me 15 years after my father passed away and knew nothing about him or saw any photos of him.
When it comes to public instances of psychics and sensitives, I'm pretty skeptical, but not disrespecting them. What I do find really interesting is that there was so much private and government funded research into psychic and ESP/sensitives not so long ago and now it's pretty much a dying pseudo science now. I believe there is still highly funded research happening in the world on telekinesis, telepathy, psychic powers, ESP, etc.. but just not as much as before. Much of it is not verifiable except what seems to be a few cases that were well documented by the government or private individuals who have gone through those programs.
Also, off on tangent, I wonder how many of psychics/sensitives are products of some government program or experiment, passed on from parent to child, that was developed during WWII and the Cold War era.
There was a movie made about a woman who used to be part of a government program for the deaf and when she left, drama followed. I forget the title, something like patient #14/Eavesdropper. I forget what her gift was after the government restored her hearing, but she could hear or get conversation without people speaking or something like that... if I find that flick (they claim it's based on true events in the US).
UPDATE:
Found it, known as Patient #14 overseas, The Eavesdropper in the US.
Supposedly based on true events that took place in the USA.
Fifteen deaf patients took part in an experimental clinical trail aimed at hearing restoration. Within days, fourteen of the fifteen participants in the trial become violently psychotic, ultimately taking their lives to stop violent side effects brought on by the treatment. This is the story of the sole survivor of the experiment, Patient #14 - Liza Raines, who participation in the experiment gave her super-normal hearing abilities - particularly, the ability to hear the frequency emitted by the brain when it thinks. When her life is suddenly thrown into jeopardy, Liza is forced to use her ability against those set on covering up the fact that she even existed.
I'm almost afraid to pipe up, but I will anyway... I am a sensitive. I can sense paranormal activity...and EMF spikes to a certain extent. I don't know why or how and I know it sounds weird and all that, but the way I see it is: Did you believe in ghosts before you experienced one? If you had the ...uh... 'extra' information I sense, you'd likely believe in it, too. I'm not always right, though. And sometimes my interpretation skills suck. But I do own up to it. This ability is a complicated tool that does not come with an instruction manual, it's controls are not intuitive and not everyone has one just like you do, so asking around won't turn up much on how it works for you.
It's like someone handing you your very first computer in 1983 and expecting you to write programs without giving you books or answering questions. You just have to figure it out for yourself. It's not impossible, but it's not easy, either. It takes time and a lot of experimentation. Now add to that all the people who wanted that program written and point out every time you fail...and imagine that coming from people who can only knock on your door and yell at you through the wall PLUS people who barge in and demand you get it done now while they sing "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall" ...starting at infinity.
Welcome to being sensitive. It's irritating...but it can be quite useful sometimes.
For me, it's more of a ghost detector. I'm not good with details. In fact, if I sense details, I start to disregard them. If they keep popping up, then I start to believe them. I also seem to operate quite differently from most psychics and sensitives...or I interpret the information I sense differently than most.
There are also times when the ghost doesn't want to perform, either. I can't always communicate, but each energy is different, just as the energy from everyone you know is different.
I don't know why I can feel stuff. I don't. It doesn't even run in my family as far as I can tell. No one else talked about it and I was afraid to--still am to some extent. But there's an increasing interest in it these days and I do have experience, so I try to share what I can. Everyone has this ability. Not everyone uses it and not everyone's ability is as strong from birth. It is like a muscle for me, though. While I've never fully lost it, when I use it all the time, it gets much sharper...which is a blessing and a curse.
For the most part, my ability is unreliable. Sometimes I'm on and sometimes, not so much. But I own up to it. I also don't insist that whatever I'm sensing is concrete and not open for debate. Just as a volcano appeared in your dream, but then the mountain was later on fire, sometimes things are either misinterpreted or what if the dream had been about a fire on a mountain, would that have elicited the same response out of you or was the volcano a much more dire situation which made you take a different route to solve your problems? Sometimes, that's where the difference lies. We get the information one way, even though the event is another, but it wasn't your interpretation skills that were off, the information was twisted.
I have strengths and weaknesses and I intend to explore them all. My function in a paranormal group is sensing energy. If communication might be helpful, I'll try. But I never make promises other than that I'll be able to tell whether or not recent paranormal activity has occurred. To me, it's like investigating a mountain that has just burned. The fire may no longer be there, but the evidence is and the way it feels burned is far different than a mountain feels before flames.
Oh, and as always, feel free to ask questions and even shoot me down. I'm totally open to debate and I don't offend easily. (I know I'm a freak of nature, but as much as I've tried to correct that, it doesn't change.) The only ways I can figure out how to use my ability are through experience, debate and experiment. I'm not afraid of being wrong, misguided or labeled crazy. I am afraid of not knowing where this came from, how it's supposed to work and what I'm supposed to do with it. :)
Awesome post Rina, thanks for the input. I really liked your computer analogy, it's exactly like that. There have been times that I was spot on and other times that I was so wrong it was pathetic. Which is why I keep such things to myself normally, because it is to erratic. You accept the fact that you can be wrong, which means that you are what I would call responsible with your gift.
Johhny,
The popularity then dying down of Parasycology isn't because it was found a dead end, but rather the opposite in fact. In the begining, EVERYBODY could do experiments that could show evidence that Psi abilities existed. Take 4 cards, a circle, square, triangle, and wavy lines, you look at them one at a time. Statistically you should guess about 25%, if somebody guesses well above that, like 50% something is up. Conversely if somebody also guesses well below that something is up as well, that's called Psi Missing or gives you the goat in the sheep/goat affect. Such a test would demonstrate that Telepathy or Claivroyence was being used.
You could also take 10 boxes, but very obscure pictures or objects in them. Then have people describe them in detail. The odds of getting any right would be extremely low, and if somebody got even one right in detail "something" is up.
These were the types of tests done in early Parasychology, they were cheap and easy. Such tests proved that "something" unexplained is going on. The next step was to figure out exactly what. This moved past cards and boxes into more complex experiments, some requiring complex scientific equipment which is not cheap. Also results on "how" something works is also much slower, if you get an answer at all. It's possible that our current understanding of physics and chemistry or whatever may not be advanced enough. Many places with Parasycology depts and such shut down or closed, not due to Psi not being real, but they didn't want to spend money on a program that could not tell them "how." Yet such testing still goes on today, and in many places that may surprise you.
The clinical tests I saw involved something like 20 cards, 10 black boxes and a questionnaire at the end. No one came out as having true psychic abilities even though the test results improved with alcohol and drug consumption. They imagine it had to do with some inhibition factor that let them get a few more answers correct.
Interesting stuff though.
Most of the big tests that I read about by the big universities and such had at least 100 attempts guessing cards and such. People who believed in Psi abilities scored well over random chance, and people who didn't believe scored well under it. However, when you increase the number of attempts to like 1,000 things tend to even out to what random chance would say. They figure this is due to boredom or some other factor.
A test like you are talking about seem's like some half hearted attempt without any real science about it.
Hey guys. I've got a confession to make. I've been holding out on you. The truth is.......is....well....I am psychic. Yes. It is true. Very true. And, I have a major prediction. Wanna hear it? Okay..here goes......I see major disagreements over this in your future!
OH MAN!!!! Am I good at this or WHAT? :P
p.s. Sorry.....I needed some levity. It's been a rough day. A REALLY rough day.
LOL. ;D
Yes, there will always be a lot of disagreements over this subject. Kind of like religion and politics, only the conversations are usually more civil. :)
Quote from: MichaelF (FPIE) on June 02, 2008, 06:40:18 PM
Most of the big tests that I read about by the big universities and such had at least 100 attempts guessing cards and such. People who believed in Psi abilities scored well over random chance, and people who didn't believe scored well under it. However, when you increase the number of attempts to like 1,000 things tend to even out to what random chance would say. They figure this is due to boredom or some other factor.
A test like you are talking about seem's like some half hearted attempt without any real science about it.
This is a good read by George P Hansen. Michael you might find it interesting...
----------------
George P. Hansen was professionally employed in parapsychology laboratories for eight years?three at the Rhine Research Center in Durham, North Carolina, and five at Psychophysical Research Laboratories in Princeton, New Jersey. His experiments included remote viewing, card guessing, ganzfeld, electronic random number generators, s?ance phenomena, and ghosts. He has been active in a number of psychic, UFO, and New Age organizations, and he helped found a skeptics group.
His papers in scientific journals cover mathematical statistics, fraud and deception, the skeptics movement, conjurors in parapsychology, and expos?s of hoaxes. He is a member of the International Brotherhood of Magicians.
http://www.tricksterbook.com/HomePage.htm
http://www.tricksterbook.com/BookDescriptions/Parapsychology.htm
I'm actually surprised that you would reccomend Mr Hansen because he is somebody who's writing I very much agree with. It seems from your posts that you would disagree with him. He 100% agrees that Psi abilities exist and does a lot of writing about why no matter how much evidence is done to prove so, some people will just never agree. He also has good theories about why very few places study the paranormal seriously. It has nothing to do with the fact that it doesn't exist, but rather social pressures. For example, organized religion is very much against Psi abilities, because then "miracles" of the past could possibly be explained as something other then divine. I also read a very good articicle by him a while back that talked about why just because magicians "can" fake a certain ability doesn't mean that the ability is not real.
He is a very good read.
Quote from: MichaelF (FPIE) on June 03, 2008, 01:06:57 AM
I'm actually surprised that you would reccomend Mr Hansen because he is somebody who's writing I very much agree with. It seems from your posts that you would disagree with him. He 100% agrees that Psi abilities exist and does a lot of writing about why no matter how much evidence is done to prove so, some people will just never agree. He also has good theories about why very few places study the paranormal seriously. It has nothing to do with the fact that it doesn't exist, but rather social pressures. For example, organized religion is very much against Psi abilities, because then "miracles" of the past could possibly be explained as something other then divine. I also read a very good articicle by him a while back that talked about why just because magicians "can" fake a certain ability doesn't mean that the ability is not real.
He is a very good read.
Yeah Michael, I didn't mean to seem like a complete dunk head, I do like some of his articles and read parts of his book after a friend who practices shamanism and is a magician recommended it me. I definitely agree with some of Hansen's writings, because he does nail the social enigma of it. Social acceptance, whether through religion, science, government or culture will always find opposition. Studies with particular chemicals and their affects on the neurological system I believe has been practiced for a long time. What do chemicals do that unleashes the mind? Is it just inhibition, does it actually open up doorway to the brain or is it all hallucinations and how much rationality can one hold it to. If psi abilities becomes popular culture, will there be a field developed to cure these sensitives and psychics with psi or will it be accepted openly. Good stuff for sure.
Quote from: MichaelF (FPIE) on May 23, 2008, 11:48:09 AM
Unlike Dave, I actually believe that everybody is psychic or sensitive to some extent or another. I think it's a part of us that has always been there like a survival instinct or simply a part of our brain that most don't really use. The problem is that most people learn or believe themselves out of this ability as they grow up, or possibly even that most peoples minds are to "busy" to actually pay attention to this part of them. It's also extremely hard to sort this ability out from intuition or imagination, so it can easily be dismissed as such.
It's funny you bring this up as I am an example. My mother (to this day) tells me all of these stories of how I could predict things when I was younger, and even backed some up with pictures. I remember having these instincts/abilities as a tween and they slowly went by the wayside as I tried not to pay attention to them. I've confronted my mother on these stories and she still swears to her maker that they are true. I have had a few things happen in the last year or so that lead me to believe that instinct is still around if I allow it to be.
I do believe that this instinct is instilled in everyone, and that it is true it can be "muffled" or ignored.
I don't consider myself a pshycic or really even a sensitive at all. I just think I have used the instinct/ability (whether it be accidentally or not) while others may yet to discover it personally.
Had an odd event happen today. I was sitting at the drivethroug of KFC waiting for our food, we had to pull up. I was also on the phone with my wife talking while I waited. I looked out across the street and saw a blue ball sitting in the middle of the road. I got a super strong sense of Deja Vu and started to remember a dream that I had, in it there was a car accident, I couldn't remember much detail. Now I know there are a lot of "real" reasons, scientific and otherwise for a Deja Vu feeling and such, yet I decided to run with it and told the wife I thought there was going to be a car accident. Sure enough about 30 seconds later, this red truck turned in front of this camero and got clipped. It wasn't a major accident or anything, but the coincidence is pretty odd.
Ok going out on a limb here, but wanted to do an experiment and put this on record. Last night I had an odd dream, saw a huge area of smoke down south of 54 and 5, looked like it was down by TJ or close to that. Impression I got was of a massive fire. Probably nothing at all, but you never know. If tomorrow TJ goes up in flames, it would certainly be interesting.
Even if it isn't tomorrow, there are a ton of wildfires going right now. There is a possiblility of that area going up (although I certainly hope not).
If it does happen to catch, what would be your reaction?
Actually, if I remember correctly, the name 'Sensitive' was used during the late 1800's, early 1900's and was just another name for Psychic.
Quote from: MichaelF (FPIE) on May 23, 2008, 09:36:10 PM
You guys are killing me, all these views and no comments!
Bellaghoste, why do you consider Psychics are real but sensitives are not? I always considered them to be mostly just different names for the same thing, although Psychic tends to be used more for people who make a living from it.
Quote from: MichaelF (FPIE) on June 30, 2008, 06:13:25 PM
Ok going out on a limb here, but wanted to do an experiment and put this on record. Last night I had an odd dream, saw a huge area of smoke down south of 54 and 5, looked like it was down by TJ or close to that. Impression I got was of a massive fire. Probably nothing at all, but you never know. If tomorrow TJ goes up in flames, it would certainly be interesting.
Ah, it's all clear to me now. You've got something against TJ. (just kidding) ;D
There are some open space preserves south of 54, a couple of riverbeds - the Otay and the Tijuana rivers - (the Sweetwater is actually the northern border of 54) and the sloughs (salt marshes or river deltas). The sloughs are probably too wet to burn and the remaining open space burns quite frequently. Just don't have any dreams about tomatoes, okay? ;D
Tomatoes.... YOu mean like a dream about giant tomatoes making an odd gibbering sound and rolling around smashing people? Ohhh wait, nevermind, that was a move I saw once.
I think I remember that film. It was based on the best selling novel "The Tomatoes of Wrath".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfm3_BMinhg
Or maybe "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes"! :o
Lol yep, that is it, it even has a catchy tune. Funny story, on Navy ships they have channels that play movies and such on the TV's around the ship. Usually these were picked by the people who run the movies (Interior Communications Men,) however, some nights they did request nights where people could call in a movie they wanted and the movie with the most requests won. It always sucked to have watch when this was going on, it always seemed just my luck that I was always on watch for the good movies. So my watch team and I hatched an evil plan...... We all took turns calling in and requesting Attack of the Killer Tomatoes and this other movie about some killer baboon, two totally terrible movies. Since like 10 of us were all picking the same movies, they kept winning. Lucky for us by the time we got off watch the bad movies were done and we were ready to watch some good ones.
For some reason those two movies dissapeared, I can't imagine why......
Hey Mike,
Thought I would resurrect this old thread and give a shout out to you.
Found this clip on You Tube and thought it was appropriate: Zelda Rubenstein at her best! ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7v5lDA5Pxs&NR=1
She is just a scary little lady.
Like one of those life size dolls that came alive.
She tells you things only a paranormal investigator can understand.
But to us she is known as the beast. ;D ;D
Hey Tim,
Here's the clip you're taling about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABPUZtLVL1w
Enjoy