what are ur thoughts i heard it was our government i hear it was another country not sure what to think
so again what are ur thoughts?
-Todd
Sorry Todd, maybe I am missing something here. Thoughts on what?
(I need more coffee....) :-\
I think he's referring to the terrorist attacks on Washington and New York. There's been a conspiracy afoot since even before September 11, 2001 that our own government would stage a shill terrorist attack on our own territory, so as to rally Americans to support war in the Middle East (in a very loosely connected way, from Afghanistan and Bin Laden--with whom the Bush family are/were personal friends; no kidding--and onto Iraq). Todd, can you give us your take on this?
Sorry, Karl. A little tired here. I spent half the night helping Taylor with a school project. Whew...second grade can be tough!
Truly, I think Bush Jr. was resolving Bush Sr.'s unfinished business w/ Sadaam. 9/11 was just an excuse to finish what his father wasn't able to.
Just my opinion.....
Todd,
To echo Karl; what is your take on this?
As bad as Bush and our government may be, they are not that evil as to kill 2,000 americans to get the country together and to continue a war. I feel sorry for the families of the victims. They have to hear these crazy conspiracy theories, such as their own country killing their children/parents/husbands/wives. These were terrorist attacks on the US.
I agree. I could've strangled Rosie O'Dumbo when she went off on basically the whole cast of the The View that day, saying there were bombs in the WTC buildings and it wasn't just a terrorist attack.
Quote from: PPI leslie on February 15, 2008, 11:30:39 AM
As bad as Bush and our government may be, they are not that evil as to kill 2,000 americans to get the country together and to continue a war.
I'm sorry, Leslie. I don't mean for this comment come on strong, but I think the Bush Administration actually is that evil. How many good American soldiers have they already led to their deaths just to secure Dick Cheney's investments, and all under the false pretenses of a war on terror? (I know, I shouldn't open my mouth about politics, but this one is a line in the sand for me.)
We're not going to know the documented truth of it all until the seated members of the current administration are all deceased, anyway--which means another seventy-five years probably. Just think, it'll be part of someone's history project in the twenty-second century. ;)
I don't take any offense to anyone's political views. I find everyones opinions interesting. Lets just say I have a very open mind. ;) I just have many friends in the military and they would disagree that they died for an evil country or to secure Dick Cheney's investments. They are extremely proud for what they do and who they risk their lives for. I don't support the reason they are there either, but they fight hard for our country and risk everything for their fellow soldiers and for us civilians. The friends I have over there believe they are doing a good job and helping that country. They have told me stories you will never hear the media report because they are positive. I have to say, I don't personaly think they should be there, and I don't agree with Bush's politics, but they would argue with me and my reasons.
I was driving home from work yesterday (among the snowflakes) and was listening to NPR. They were talking about this rouge satellite that Bush is going to have the military shoot down before it crash lands on earth sometime in the next 3 weeks. At one point I had to laugh out loud because the reporter quoted Bush as saying that he felt it had to be shot down because his number one concern was safety and human lives being at stake. Maybe the wizard finally gave him a heart..........Nah.
Maybe if he asks for a brain, he?ll get a two for one deal. After all, it IS president?s day weekend. ::)
He needs to take a trip to The Land of OZ, but never to be given a pair of ruby slippers.
Shoot...this man needs a brain, courage, heart.....he's hopeless!
Yep Dave. That about sums it up...
GWB maybe hopeless - but think about who could possibly be our next president... Y'all got three choices, and everyone one of them makes me cringe....
Quote from: PPI donaldhicks on February 15, 2008, 02:38:46 PM
GWB maybe hopeless - but think about who could possibly be our next president... Y'all got three choices, and everyone one of them makes me cringe....
oh damn dude...my dog can run this country better than bush, and my other dog would be a MUCH better VP than dick.
I'm w/ Karl. I DO believe the Bush administration is that evil.
The NYC tri-state area is my home. My great uncle was one of the (many) architects that designed the WTC. I was in high school when a smaller plane flew into a tower and when a bomb was set off in another. (neither of which brought it down) Members of my family in the police and fire departments were on the scene that day and friends I grew up w/ were killed in the attack. When I go back to visit, it feels like the attacks happened yesterday.
When I was visiting Europe, the media coverage of the war was very different than what it was Stateside. If you think what we hear is bad...there is a reason the rest of the world hates us right now. When I said I was American when asked, I actually got spit on! I know media everywhere exaggerates, but there were some really, really awful stories - torture, corruption w/ Bush, you name it.
I have a colleague who is providing mental health services in Iraq to soldiers. He said the suicide rate is incredible. Morale is almost nonexistant. Granted the unit he is w/ could be the exception and not the rule.
I think any change in presidency right now could only be a good thing. I hope the war ends and people in every country involved get a chance to begin to heal.
Quote from: PPI Dave on February 15, 2008, 02:40:25 PM
Quote from: PPI donaldhicks on February 15, 2008, 02:38:46 PM
GWB maybe hopeless - but think about who could possibly be our next president... Y'all got three choices, and everyone one of them makes me cringe....
oh damn dude...my dog can run this country better than bush, and my other dog would be a MUCH better VP than dick.
I agree. A President is defined by the cabinet he or she appoints. Bush appointed nothing but dorks and circus clowns. Eight years of lies, corruption and corporate rule have taken their toll on our country and our people. Their lack of leadership and lack of vision led us from unprecented prosperity to unprecented debt and recession. It's time for a change.
I think the successor to the presidency will yank the troops out pretty quick, as long as it's feasible. Why does the U.S. have to get involved in everyone elses problems...oh wait, yeah, oil. The decisions being made "to help the people" is to help the oil industry, which I strictly oppose. Did you realize that oil companies get so many tax breaks from the federal government that they pretty much don't pay tax at all? If they had tax levels similar to companies producing "non-fossil" energy, gas would be about $8 or more a gallon. So why is the government so into oil? Not because it's cheap, but because the politicians have so much personal stake in that industry that it's actually favored by the government. This whole green movement was brought about mostly by public demand, and the fact that the goverment wants to look good in the people's eyes.
Sorry for the tangent...the things you learn in tax class. Anyway, go green and ... the middle east. Maybe that will help keep us out of there.
Yep, he's with the dark side alright....
(http://blogs.sohh.com/nyc/archives/bushsays.jpg)
government is in to oil because there are OVER 143,781,000 cars in the USA alone. Which means that the government is into oil because the people of the USA are into oil. and many industries get tax breaks - to keep US industries employing Americans. Without the tax breaks jobs go overseas where everything is cheaper...
Oh yeah, has anyone bothered to check out the unemployment rate? Does anyone know the deficit? I feel like it's a sdg&e metor. It just keeps rolling, or how about no child left behind act? Didn't tuition go up an average of two thousand dollars? I am so confused. If anyone feels that the current administration was or is a good thing, then allow me to refer you to Jen I heard she is pretty good at common psychosis.
::) :-X :o
Heres a few videos on 911 i found
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUJwHlWT6Fs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrKG8OOof1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PCr8CyG1Sg&feature=related
he says missle then plane for when it hit the pentagon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX01twhfUK4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP2Vy8K0i0&feature=related
whats ur thoughts???
I am sure 911 will always be his downfal. Although it seems like those who fight for bushes administration seem to focus on other things. So I like to throw statistics at them. As soon as our countrys debt is braught up they will say that all wars cost money. When you bring up the desire for oil in the usa, they say well you have a car don't you. If you talk about social security they will say, well it's going to run out anyway. If you bring up medical care, they will say something like, take care of yourself and you won't need it. Also if you bring up gay merrige they will say something along the words like, marrige they will say it's because it should be between a man and a woman.
Now this is where it gets kind of cruel.
Our debt in this country is the highest it has ever been in our history, so what are our childrens children and so forth are going to pay for is not their future. They will be paying for Bushes mistakes,was this war really $worth$ it?
I want to ask him why he cut funds on the search for alternative sources of energy
Why does our country offer free medical care for convicts and terrorists, but not our own people who pay for his war
I want him to witness being in a hospital and watch a marrige between two men or women who have to leave the decision to keep their loved one alive, or to pull the plug,to a hateful family member who couldn't care otherwise.
I just have a few questions for him is all, and yes he has always had a say in all of this. It wasn't just his administration making these dicisions for him. I guess I am even guilty of trying to lie to myself to forget the mistakes I have made, but at least their my mistakes. My mistakes don't affect millions of people!
My spelling is so bad, but the spell check on this thing is not working.
Quote from: PPI Ellie on February 15, 2008, 11:59:39 PM
If anyone feels that the current administration was or is a good thing, then allow me to refer you to Jen I heard she is pretty good at common psychosis.
;D
lol well said
I am so sorry. Politics get me all worked up. I know it's unprofessional. Ahhhh! The spell check is up and running again. I think I would not feel so bad about being a bad speller if maybe instead of red underlining, it was pink or purple. I would think my misspelled words were cute and I would show off my stupidity. Just joking. LOL
Ellie! Spelling things wrong doesn't mean you're stupid - especially when you're writing something that you're passionate about on a message board! You get so eager to get your views and opinions written, it would only be expected that words get misspelled. My best friend just finished getting her Masters and she calls me constantly to ask how to spell things. Brilliant people aren't necessarily good spellers - that's why bad spelling brilliant people invented spell check! ;D
OMG Jen if this is the kind of services people get from you, then HOW MUCH DO YOU COST$$
(http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/images/blog/dr-evil.jpg)
I hope it's not
ONE MILLION DOLLARS?
I wish! :D My clients are all homeless or in a hospital or jail wen I get them - I'm as cheap as it gets!
HAHAHAHHAHA
nice that was funny
While I don't think the government is beyond staging something to scare the American people, I don't think 911 is such a case. Fear is good for the government, it keeps people relying on the government, the media excels at breeding fear in fact.
That being said, I highly doubt something like 911 was done by the government. Few reasons for this, first it would have been way to big, to many people involved. All it wuld have taken was one person feeling guilty to blow it wide open. Also imagine the blackmail potential? Actually performing 911 would not be needed to get us where we are today. The finding of a dirty bomb in New York could have achieved the same results for example, with a lot less risk.
I actually know people who were at the Pentagon when the Plane hit, it was a Plane for sure, not a missile. The damage to the Pentagon could have been much much worse, and the loss of life much greater. I find it doubtfull that if you are staging an incident in the hopes of starting a war, you would risk taking out your top military leadership. We also got very lucky with the twin towers, while the loss of life was horrific, it could have been much worse. What if they hadn't basically collappsed, but had topplled on their sides instead? While I believe that some people in the government "may" be willing to commit certain actis in favor of the greater good, I think that 911 was just to risky.
On a side note about the economy / gas tangent that this thread took a little......
In many ways our struggeling economy and rising gas prices is a GOOD thing. I know that is tough to say for people struggeling to pay the bills, but it is true. Big Oil has had a stranglehold on us for a long time, because we LET them. Eventually when the prices rise enough, we will have had enough, no matter how much money the oil companies throw at politicians, people will demand alternative energy sources.
How many American companies took their jobs overseas? They wanted more money in their pockets and were willing to sacrifice American jobs. Now that the Dollar is dropping and other currencies rising, many of those companies are now regretting their decisions, eventually they may return back home. I cheer that their greed cost them money, hopefully it can be a lesson for others in the future.
Mike
I just don't know why the American people have to pay for all of this. I will not give my government any excuses when it comes to taking from the poor to give to the rich. Like I said before, although 911 was a travesty, I have a lot more questions. I don't feel our people should have to pay for their mistakes. Like NAFTA.
I know that even though I make a decent income I will never be able to afford collage for myself or my children, if I decide to have any. I sappose by then though the education system will be in such hardship that if I home school them with my high school education, they will be smarter then the average high school teacher. LOL.
Gas prices are rediculouse. I just don't see how that is a good thing. It costs more for public transportation and more to drive yourself. I don't like hearing stories of poor families that can't even get food for their family because they get robbed on the way to the store by someone who lost everything, or they can't afford gas to get there. I am sorry to get heated over this, but to be so nieve and ignorant is deffinately a pet peeve of mine.
People should not fear their government, The government should fear their people.
I HAD A DREAM....that all people would agree...left wing, right wing, left handed and right handed. I HAD A DREAM...that we would ALL agree that Pampers are better than Huggies!
Quote from: PPI Dave on February 29, 2008, 10:24:54 PM
I HAD A DREAM....that all people would agree...left wing, right wing, left handed and right handed. I HAD A DREAM...that we would ALL agree that Pampers are better than Huggies!
Omg, your killing the enviroment!! Cloth Diapers all the way! ;D
Michael,
How many cloth diapers have you had to change, huh??? Huh??
Pleasant experience.....NOT!
:D
A true tree hugger wouldn't really care!! The cloth diaper thing was a joke by the way.
Ellie, I wasn't "really" saying that the high gas prices are a good thing, but in a long term way that it may be beneficial. For example, for the longest time, if you wanted a Hybrid car, you had to buy a foreign car, the American companies simply did not make them. Yet as gas prices rose and sales on Hybrids went up, American companies realised it could be profitable to sell them as well. The more companies that are selling Hybrids, the more competition there will be, driving down prices. So todays high gas prices may lead to Hybrid cars that a "normal" family can afford 5 years from now.
That doesn't do much for families struggeling to pay the bills now though.
You are right. Hopefully it does work our in the end. I know I want a hybrid. My unborn child will be named star shine. LOL
Quote from: MichaelF on March 01, 2008, 07:26:30 PM
A true tree hugger wouldn't really care!! The cloth diaper thing was a joke by the way.
You've heard of aliens? Yeah, well try changing a diaper 24 hours after feeding your child smashed peas. Talk about a UFO sighting! GAWD! :o
After that life altering experience, you won't even WANT to
say the words "cloth diaper". Disposable is the only way you'll get out alive!
By the way...I know you were joking. ;)
Quote from: PPI Tracy on March 03, 2008, 12:51:00 AM
Quote from: MichaelF on March 01, 2008, 07:26:30 PM
A true tree hugger wouldn't really care!! The cloth diaper thing was a joke by the way.
You've heard of aliens? Yeah, well try changing a diaper 24 hours after feeding your child smashed peas. Talk about a UFO sighting! GAWD! :o
After that life altering experience, you won't even WANT to say the words "cloth diaper". Disposable is the only way you'll get out alive!
By the way...I know you were joking. ;)
I guess such a situation would literally put the "green" from using Cloth Diapers into a new perspective. :D Even worse if you came away wiith a green thumb.....
Quote from: PPI Tracy on March 03, 2008, 12:51:00 AM
Quote from: MichaelF on March 01, 2008, 07:26:30 PM
A true tree hugger wouldn't really care!! The cloth diaper thing was a joke by the way.
You've heard of aliens? Yeah, well try changing a diaper 24 hours after feeding your child smashed peas. Talk about a UFO sighting! GAWD! :o
After that life altering experience, you won't even WANT to say the words "cloth diaper". Disposable is the only way you'll get out alive!
By the way...I know you were joking. ;)
Amen, Tracy. The last thing I wanted to do at 3:00 in the morning was scrub a cloth diaper in the toilet, and then let it stink up the place until I got a chance to get down to the laundry room. As a grandparent, I still find myself appreciating the convenience of disposalbes! ;D However, my Dad always told me there was nothing in the world that could compare to a heavily washed old cloth diaper for waxing his '57 Chevy.
Oh come on guys. I really need something good to hear about children if I ever decide to have any.
they are great for doing chores when they get old enough...... ;D
Quote from: MichaelF on March 06, 2008, 09:45:08 AM
they are great for doing chores when they get old enough...... ;D
Only if you train them young... ;D
Ellie, kids are truly a life changing experience. The younger years are the best, their teens are usually pretty hairy, but if you managed to get through to them when they are young, they will eventually chill out and become sane again. I believe conflict with your young adult children is an evolutionary thing, or at least a primate thing; if you got along with your kids you would never want them to move out of your house!
Being a grandfather now, I look back over the long expanse of time that has passed with a new perspective that is part nostalgia and part mental illness. Being a parent has really high "highs" and really low "lows", but if you listen to Bill Cosby and Watch re-runs of Roseann and the Osbournes you'll be just fine. :)
Ellie,
With all the horrible things I went through when I was expecting Taylor and someone told me I had to go through it all over again just to have her.....I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I truly think that my daughter is the reason I am on this earth. She brings more joy to my life than words can express. No, it isn't all roses, but at the end of the day, knowing that you had a part in bringing this precious little soul into the world is a feeling of happiness that is beyond measure. Motherhood also makes you realize that you are so far from perfect that even a map on how to get there wouldn't do you any good. It is a challenge everyday but nothing in this world is more rewarding. That is just my take on it, but I wouldn't trade being Taylor's mom for all the money in the world.
We had the tooth fairy visit us last night. For her to wake up this morning with a huge smile (abet toothless) on her face and tell me that the tooth fairy left her money under her pillow but better yet, she left her "special pink glitter" all over the floor, was totally priceless.
It is things like that, that she will hopefully remember and cherish long after I am gone.
WOW! I am speechless.
*shakes head* amazing how this started about 9/11 & ended in poopie diapers :)
I think that when you have children, every thought and every action involves them. No matter what, when speaking to a parent the conversation will always end up involving them. I mean they are a part of their parents so it is expected. That's just how I see it.
Quote from: PPI Ellie on March 28, 2008, 08:32:05 PM
I think that when you have children, every thought and every action involves them. No matter what, when speaking to a parent the conversation will always end up involving them. I mean they are a part of their parents so it is expected. That's just how I see it.
No truer words have ever been spoken.
(I so love you, Ellie!)
There's a lot of pointing fingers & blaming for hard times. Shame on them, shame on the Bush administration, shame on NATF.
What about all of us? We ARE we the people. The same people who voted, casted, rallied, and idealized. The same people that
pushed the button, consumed, and spent. So you didn't get who you wanted in office? Then who did? Them? Sorry, I don't
mean to offend anyone. Don't even get me started on reality TV!!!
Quote from: jp3white on April 01, 2008, 01:49:04 AM
There's a lot of pointing fingers & blaming for hard times. Shame on them, shame on the Bush administration, shame on NATF.
What about all of us? We ARE we the people. The same people who voted, casted, rallied, and idealized. The same people that
pushed the button, consumed, and spent. So you didn't get who you wanted in office? Then who did? Them? Sorry, I don't
mean to offend anyone. Don't even get me started on reality TV!!!
Ohh...you're not still mad about the "poopie diaper" thing...are ya? :D ;)
*confused*
I'm not mad about poopie diapers ??
I'm mad I didn't win the Mega Lotto!
Quote from: jp3white on March 28, 2008, 12:25:33 AM
*shakes head* amazing how this started about 9/11 & ended in poopie diapers :)
Your earlier quote was what I was joking about........
I cried both times that horrible man got in office. :(
Quote from: PPI Ellie on April 04, 2008, 10:52:18 PM
I cried both times that horrible man got in office. :(
Let's just hope that the Democratic God's smile on us this time
(sorry Repubs)
(all comments here are to be taken with a grain of salt, and two grains of pepper)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
take a look at the reichstag fire of nazi germany. i posted the link or the address or whatever at the top, i hate to sound like a 911 nutcase (because we BOTH dont know everything), but our culture has made people who dont think "democracy good" "communism bad" or whatever to be crazy tree huggers, and not worthy of attention.
here's the thing the nazis burned down their own parliment building to begin their invasion of the world, im summing things up neatly of course, but it was designed to get germans PISSED OFF, and go along with whatever the fatherland wanted to do. by the time the regular folks started opening their eyes, jews were in the oven and it was TOO LATE to go back.
America funded the covert war in afghanistan in the 80's so that the afghans would kill soviets instead of americans having to do it. see that newish tom hanks movie charlie wilsons war, for a hollywood version of those events. it was pretty good. who had the power in the 80's? GEORGE BUSH SR. was head of the CIA. it was the peak of the cold war.
if we funneled money and training into afghanistan to teach donkey riders (no disrespect) how to shoot down soviet gunships, who can say with complete certainty that the bush administration didnt have something to do with training "muslims" to fly jets into the WTC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleen_Rowley
also, pres bush sais in this video that he WATCHED the first plane fly into the WTC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUXglJU2w6U
when news video footage didnt come available until the next day, and the official version shows him finding out with school children.
also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc
the BBC reported building 7 had collapsed before it ever did.
WTC looks like a controlled demolition to me. i hate to say it, but tell me why we have never seen any GOOD footage of an AIRLINER flying into the pentagon, the most protected building, short of the white house, on earth, and the plane just HAPPENED to fly into the part that was being renovated for years, causing very little REAL damage to the pentagon.
do i need to keep going? ok i will go a little further.
CARLYLE GROUP and of course the infamous HALIBURTON are making TONS of money off the war on terror. and big oil has its hand in it aswel since Karzi (sp) the new "president" of afghanistan was an ex oil executive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan_Oil_Pipeline
the soviets werent dumb. they didnt want afghanistan because they thought it would be a cool place to put condos. it is strategically important. i find it quite a coincidence that before 911 we had only heard the term "terrorist" but never "AlQuieda" but more of a coincidence that when the soviets were gone, we made OUR move for afghanistan in the way of "bringing democracy" to it. I have learned over time that we usually bring democracy to places where we have a strategic or economic interest, and then a puppet government is formed.
hell, we dont even have a real democracy here. the OBAMA VS CLINTON thing is most damaging i think to the country because it has SHED LIGHT on the process.
in the primary, votes dont matter, PREDETERMINED deligates do, otherwise florida would have a say in the democrat primaries, but the candidates are out shopping for "DELIGATE" votes, notnot really the people's votes, then, when we get to the GENERAL election, it is the ELECTORAL COLLEGE who makes the decisions, not actual counted votes.
IS THIS THE DEMOCRACY WE SO STRONGLY BELIEVE IN?
personally, i believe the federal government to be very similar to a secret society (not unlike skull and bones) there are very few insiders who are outside the fray. RON PAUL IS ONE EXCEPTION. not that im here to promote ron paul, but i am using him as an example.
i find it quite suspect, that it appears that we currently live in a two family monarchy (bush and clinton)
whew i could keep going, but that would make us BOTH crazy :-X
-M@
FYI. Bush was VP in the 80's and CIA director from 76-77.
thank you for the correction on the years. i knew he was head of cia when carter was in office, and vp under ronald "mommy?" reagan. i had the dates wrong.
One thing I know for 100% sure about 9-11 is that a plane did hit the Pentagon. I have 2 close friends who were stationed there at the time, one of which actually saw the plane coming through a window. They both were involved in helping people escape the building and such and saw the wreakage.
The point of the correction - and no offense intended or meant - but if its that easy to miss documented facts that are easily searchable, how easy it is to get caught up in a theory that has missing, inconclusive, and undocumented facts?
the theory was mine alone, although it might share similarities with some of the others. i have heard some people believe that all the people on the planes were removed before impact. i dont believe that, nor do i know what to believe about 911. i do not know. i will probably never know. i was adding my 2 cents into the forums.
no offense taken. to tell the truth, i was very "pro war" up until a few years ago. (i hate to say pro war, but i meant in support of our actions, believing them to be just) but i was also listening to a lot of talk radio. my mind has begun to think for itself since switching off.
The thing about a secret is that the more people who know about it, the greater the risk of it leaking out is. Then you also have to deal with people with a guilty conscience afterwards. I think that an operation as big as 9-11 would have far to great of a risk to be done by our government. If they wanted to do something like that, they could have achieved the same results with an operation that was far less risky.