Haunted Dolls

[PPI Brian]

During my daily paranormal wanderings through the dark dank corners of the internet I stumbled across this link from Haunted America Tours. Anyone have any links, thought or theories about haunted dolls?

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/museum/REALHAUNTEDDOLLS.htm

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Nice link, I had heard of some of those before, but not others.  I'm sure many Haunted Dolls are simply people trying to make a buck, but I think that it is only "natural" that dolls are one of the most common haunted items.  There are a few reasons for this.

-If a child dies at a young age, it is possible that they may become attached to an item.  Since a doll is person like, this may make them feel the most comfortable.

-People use all sorts of items in occult rituals.  A common one is a doll of some sort, normally used to inflict harm of ill fortune on an individual.  When dealing with the negative occult, people don't generally understand the forces they are dealing with.  These forces could become attached to an item such as a doll.

-Some spirits crave interaction, what the rules or limits of spirit interaction are nobody really knows.  Perhaps it is easier and more natural for a spirit to interact through an item that resembles it's human form.  Some may not even know they are dead, and may believe they are still within thier body.  Perhaps prolonged interaction with a certain object can create a bond or a tie to an item.

Assuming that all three theories are possible, it is not surprising that there are reports of many haunted dolls.  What I find disturbing is that many people think getting a haunted doll may be cool or neat, they dont realise that the actual act of knowing the doll is haunted and willingly accepting it into their homes may be opening themselves up for far more then they bargained for.

[ttjoon]

During my daily paranormal wanderings through the dark dank corners of the internet I stumbled across this link from Haunted America Tours. Anyone have any links, thought or theories about haunted dolls?

http://www.hauntedamericatours.com/museum/REALHAUNTEDDOLLS.htm

I have a really hard time believing in this.  I guess it could be true, but I wonder if it is more myth than anything.  I mean has any individual here on the boards ever have any experience with this or have any of you known anyone who has?  Again, I am not saying that these things don't happen.  I mean anything is possible I guess. It just seems very far fetched.  Opinions anyone? 

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Well I personally don't know anybody, but one of the most famous haunted dolls is the Annabelle doll that Warrens investigated.  Not sure how you feel about the Warrens, but many find them reputable.

[ttjoon]

The Warren's I do believe to be reputable.  I have heard of this doll Annabelle.  I personally don't think they would be anything but truthful about the subject.  It does however boggle the mind, so to speak.

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Well I guess it's a matter of perspective.  If you believe in Ghosts and that they can manipulate objects, such as slamming a door and such, I don't think Dolls are a much bigger stetch.  I guess it kind of depends on how you think it "works" for a ghost.  Can they easily move stuff?  Do they need to concentrate hard?  Does it take a lot of energy?  What are thier limits?

The Human brain already manipulates arms, legs and other body parts through "mind power," so is it possible that a spirit could find it easier to move an object that is already more familiar with such as a doll?  Maybe, I don't know.

Some spirits may be tied to a place, others may be able to roam, still others could be tied to an object.  I don't find it hard to believe that if spirits can still "feel" things, that some may tie themselves to their current "body," so to speak.  The doll benig the body of course.

Then again, I am logically trying to explain something that I really know nothing about.

[PPI Brian]

I have never had a personal experience with a doll as a paranormal activity focal point, but I have read a lot of reports by people who claim such activity is possible. The emotional bonds between a child and a doll or even a stuffed animal can be very strong, especially in abusive or stressful family environments. Einstien theorized that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only change forms. This energy must have some effect on the focal point. Perhaps instead of a human spirit somehow becoming bound or embodied in the doll  there is another aspect at work here. There have been reports dating back many years regarding "Thoughtforms"; paranormal beings that came into existence because of the will of an individual. I have often wondered whether or not these dolls are bound to a Thoughtform that was created by the mind of a child. The classic tales associated with these items (mischeif, "bad luck" or downright evil behavior) seems very similar to the classic descriptions of Thoughtforms.

Just my two cents...

Regards,

Brian Miller

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Brian, are there Thoughtforms similiar to true Poltergeist phenomena?  So do you think that such a form could / would persist after the person who created it is dead?  I always theoriezed that the "energy" for a Poltergeist, TK, or whatever came from the person themselves.  So once that person died, that "energy" would be gone, so if a Thoughtform persisted, then it would almost be like the person created energy.

Damn, as I typed this, I realised I already poked holes in my own thoughts.  You could also theorize that just because that person is dead, their "energy" isn't gone, it just changed forms, meaning they could still be "maintaining" the Thoughtform.

Hell I'll shutup now, I love theoretical physics, especially as it pertains to the paranormal, I coudl argue with myself all day here.

[PPI Brian]

Hi Mike,

All of the accounts of Thoughtforms that I've read over the span of many years indicate that they a capable of taking a life of their own independent of their "creator", so it is rumored that they persist after their "creator" passes away. Reports of their "personality" changing over time are also common.

As for your comments about poltergeist activity, I have always beieved there was a connection. Many poltergeist cases seem to begin as a classic Human Focal PK Event, but eventually morph into something else as time passes. This could be a result of the Focal creating a Thoughtform during the course of the PK "outbreak". Reports of full-bodied apparitions seem to be more prevalent in the final phases of poltergeist events, as opposed to the beginning phases, unless the "poltergeist" is of non-human origin.    

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

I have never really been a fan of the Poltergeist haunting classification, simply because the movement of objects can actually come from many different styles of hauntings.  I think that the Term Poltergeist is more of a description of ACTIVITY, vice a haunting type.

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Every night I spend about an hour in our Hot Tub, I use this time to just think about stupid crap like Paranormal thoeries and such.  Tonight I was thinking about the Thoughtform theory and my head got thinking.

First I want to start out saying I hope I don't offend anybody.  These are not actually even my personal beliefs, and in no means do I intend to attack or discredit anybody elses personal beliefs.  Just doing some theorizing here.

Let's go with the assumption that such Thoughtforms are real.  A person can using some means actually create an entity that literally has a life of it's own, even a personality.  Assuming that one person could do so, it's not a stretch to think that a group of people could do so as well.  If enough people contributed such "energy" to this Thoughtform, it could possibly become very powerful, even Godlike.

Take the Greek and Roman pantheons for example.  If Zeus had enough followers could he possibly be a Thoughtform that became extremely powerful?  Strong enough to actually perform miracles and interact with his followers?  We don't see actual miracles and such from these ancient "gods" anymore because nobody believes in them and their power has dimineshed over time.

Going even further, what if suppossed Demons and such are real and only exist because we believed that they existed?  Was there a Satan before anybody believed in him or was he created due to our beliefs?  Perhaps the age old battle between good and evil is literally a fight for energy from our act of believing in them.

Once again, I hope I didn't offend anybody, I'm not saying that the above is true, just tossing an idea out there to think about.  If I am struck by lightning tonight, heed the warning....

[rinaslayter]

First off, hello, I'm new here and quite glad to have been invited by Britt. I'm a newbie to the community, but I've been having paranormal experiences since I was a child. I don't remember ever thinking that ghosts don't exist.

Pardon me for interjecting, but this particular thread caught my attention because I happen to collect old dolls. I've got over 200 of them. Of which, I've had unexplained experiences attached to some of them.

One was given to me by my aunt when I was four. (The doll was made in 1958 or so.) Over the last 30 years, I'm not the only one who has sworn her facial expression changes. I don't know why that is. Some people have also told me they think the doll watches them. It doesn't help that she's 30 inches tall.

Another, (from the 1880s or 1890s) caused about a month of unexplained activity in my house--lights turning off and on, refrigerator opened, shadow ran down the hallway, dishwasher turned on--but I'm not even sure exactly which doll it was because I brought in more than one that week. (I just blogged about this experience on my myspace blog where I've started writing out all of my experiences.) It seemed like everything got crazier and crazier until one final moment in my home theater and then that kind of activity stopped and has yet to return. (It has been 4 years now.)

Another that I got about four months ago (from 1910 or so) always seemed to be watching me. I isolated her from the rest of my collection, turned on a voice recorder and got some EVPs. However, I'm not sure that was the doll talking because I've since discovered that there is, indeed 'someone' up else in that room. All other EVP sweeps for that doll have been been silent.

This particular doll also kept me from sleeping about two weeks after the EVP. I don't tolerate that kind of thing, so the next morning I took her out of the hallway (very little natural light gets in there. I keep my dolls away from sunlight to keep their dresses from fading.) and put her in a different room which gets a lot of sunlight. A friend suggested I sprinkle lavender around her, so I did. (Why not? It made the room smell nice at least!) She seems fine now, the tension is gone, but I haven't returned her to the hallway. Personally, it seemed like there may have been someone attached to her. But that person wasn't very nice, so stopping short of getting rid of the doll (to become someone else's unsuspecting problem) I did what I could to get rid of the negativity. If I'm going to have a ghost at home, he or she better be nice!

Many of the very old dolls were a little girl's only toy, therefore that doll saw everything the little girl saw...good or bad, happy or sad. That doll was likely the girl's best friend, too. Lots of emotion was poured over that inanimate object and it seems to me that there's a lot of residual energy with some of those dolls because of it...especially the ones in my collection with numerous repairs.

As for whether sentient ghosts get attached, I have no idea. I honestly haven't investigated that deeply. First, I think I'd need a doll that doesn't keep me from sleeping in order to find out if something other than place memory (or object memory in this case!) can get attached.

[PPI Brian]

Welcome to the forums.    Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. IMHO our forums are second to none, and there are plenty of topics here for every interest.

I am very intrigued by some of the comments you made regarding your doll collection. Have you ever done any "tests" or "experiments" to see if in fact the dolls have shifted position in thier cases?

Regards,

Brian Miller

[PPI Brian]

Here's an article about an allegedly haunted vodoo doll that I stumbled across this morning:

http://ghosthuntersofamerica.com/voodoo.htm

[rinaslayter]

I am very intrigued by some of the comments you made regarding your doll collection. Have you ever done any "tests" or "experiments" to see if in fact the dolls have shifted position in thier cases?

Thank you for the welcome. I hope to add what I can to the knowledge pool. Sorry my posts get kind of long. I'm a novelist. It's hard to be succinct when I'm fascinated.

I haven't done any experiments on my dolls, however, the big Patty Playpal doll's arm has unexplainably changed positions a few times over the years. Not much, but at least a few inches up or down. Yeah, that sounds scary and creepy, but I don't sense enough negative energy from her to actually hurt me or mess up my life. In fact, sometimes when she gives off a lot of energy, I comb her hair or rearrange where she's standing and the tension decreases. She's been that way since I got her. I haven't put a camera up or even put an EMF meter around her for any length of time because she simply doesn't do stuff on a regular basis.

I only have one doll in a case and she's never moved. (I bought her brand new from a toy store in 1988.) The rest are all either in my home office, the hallway in the center of the house and there's two or three in my front room. I have to keep them out of the sun as much as possible or their dresses and face coloring fade.

I wish I would've studied the one that brought about a lot of activity in my house, but that was during a time when I was pushing aside my sensitivity and didn't want to deal with ghostly stuff.

The most recent doll (the one I surrounded in lavender in a room that gets more sun) would have been intriguing to experiment with except that she gave off negativity and I don't want something like that in my home. I live a crazy enough life. I don't need more drama. I just bought a couple more dolls, though. Maybe one of them will come in with some better energy attached. One of them is pretty broken up and the repairs on it were likely done a century ago. Should be fascinating even if it isn't haunted.

The link to the voodoo doll story made my eyes bug out. First off, why would anyone who knew a doll had negative connotations bring that doll into their home? That just doesn't sound fun to me. I have quite a few dolls that really make me smile. They really bring me joy the same way a friend would. Some are just nifty to have, but aside from their historic energy, I don't 'feel' much from them. I do believe that if something bad is attached to an object and you welcome it into your presence, you're really asking for trouble, you are welcoming trouble. I mean, aside from all the hexes and curses and stuff like that, if there's someone mean attached, they're just going to bowl you over. Wouldn't you rather have your sweet Auntie May come over and tell you bedtime stories than mean Uncle Albert who eats you out of house and home and does nothing but complain about everything?

The lady who bought the doll may have simply been curious, okay, oops. But the lady who just took possession of the doll after knowing its negative activities seems kind of absurd to me. She wants to study something that does bad things? Ummm... Pardon my passionate response here, but she doesn't know what she's dealing with and yet she wants to poke and prod it? It is a doll that can travel mileage on its own and doesn't want to be gotten rid of not to mention all of its noise making, etc. That's simply not normal for an inanimate object. More power to her if she thinks she can handle it and for her sake, I hope she can because if there's really a negative or even powerful entity attached, she's going to have her hands full...and perhaps her whole life full.

No thanks. I'll stick to my positive and neutral dolls, thank you very much. But if I get a good haunted one, you bet I'll experiment. Right now, the only ghost in my house is the one in my upstairs bathroom. I've been keeping a log of activity. If I get anything good--dolls or evidence upstairs--I'll definitely post it.

(On a side note... I don't know why so many people are afraid of dolls. Is it just so many sets of eyes? The human shape in miniature? The thing I have noticed is that most haunted dolls are pretty old...back to a time when a doll might've been a girl's only toy... Judging by style and materials, the dolls pictured in the link on the voodoo doll story page (with the exception of the the devil baby) date from about 1870 through the early 1940s.)

[PPI Brian]

LOL! Your post reminded me of something Mark Twain once said: "I aplogize for writing such a long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one."

Thanks again for your post. I would also be reluctant to collect objects that may have negative associations such as vodoo dolls or other allegedly haunted objects. I think we all feel we have enough negativity in our lives without inviting more. It would be interesting to experiment with a doll that apparently moved of it's own accord. Arms moving in a downward motion could always be attributed to the effect of gravity and, because we live in California, siesmic activity. But arms that move up apparently defying the effect of gravity would be very intriguing indeed. 

I have also wondered why people are so freaked out by dolls, especially old dolls. I spent a great deal of time in a local museum that had a lot of old dolls from the 1860's, and all the visitors in the museum would remark about how "creepy" they looked. I suppose it has something to do with the exagerated facial features and the large staring eyes.

Regards,

Brian Miller

[PPI Brian]

Here's the obligatory Youtube video of an allegedly "haunted" doll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcMAwH-5Hgw

And yet another, though I'm not exactly sure what they are trying to demonstrate with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR6e0DYlhb8&NR=1

Thoughts anyone?

[bellalaghoste]

So cool love haunted dolls. 

[MichaelF (FPIE)]

Here's the obligatory Youtube video of an allegedly "haunted" doll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcMAwH-5Hgw

And yet another, though I'm not exactly sure what they are trying to demonstrate with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR6e0DYlhb8&NR=1

Thoughts anyone?

First one was interesting watching it move, but without being able to analyze the sceen, can't determine much.

The second one was kind of annoying with it's obvious attempt at "hyping" it up.  However, watching the candlestick and cup move were interesting as well.  If you watch the dolls face, you can see it's scowl "seems" to get bigger.  Again though, it could have easily been faked.

Thanks for the posts Rina, hopefully you let us know if activity picks up.  I think Haunted Dolls are interesting.

There are a few few types of people who would purposely take a negative doll into thier house.   They want to take it off somebodies hands and think they are more equipped to handle it, the Warrens are a great example of this, they took many negative objects to help people.  Others are into the negative and occult and think it may help them in some way.  Some are just stupid.  Lastly you have people who think it will be a cool parlor trick or something to show thier friends, not knowing what effect a negative experiance can have on their lives.

[rinaslayter]

Well, the first one is too far away to really see what happened. Yeah, the doll's leg moved, but is it a mechanical doll to begin with? Walking dolls do that sometimes. Also, was it the doll that moved, or another spirit in the house affecting the doll? What kind of stand is the doll on? If it shifted, so would the doll.

The other one...well...I don't know about all the theatrics before their 'evidence', but even then, I wasn't impressed. Too many variables that weren't ruled out. A styrofoam cup can move with very little off-camera air being blown at it. Static electricity could also make a styrofoam cup roll like that.

There are a few few types of people who would purposely take a negative doll into thier house.   They want to take it off somebodies hands and think they are more equipped to handle it, the Warrens are a great example of this, they took many negative objects to help people.  Others are into the negative and occult and think it may help them in some way.  Some are just stupid.  Lastly you have people who think it will be a cool parlor trick or something to show thier friends, not knowing what effect a negative experiance can have on their lives.

Well stated on all accounts!

Good to know there are haunted doll enthusiasts here. I'm in good company. Anyone who has doll questions, feel free to ask me. I may not know a whole lot about haunted dolls in particular, but I do know a whole lot about how the older ones were made, where, by whom and when.

[ttjoon]

Here's the obligatory Youtube video of an allegedly "haunted" doll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcMAwH-5Hgw

And yet another, though I'm not exactly sure what they are trying to demonstrate with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR6e0DYlhb8&NR=1

Thoughts anyone?

A lot of things could have explained the first video. The second video left me scratching my head going....."HUH"?